I think that quote fell a little short
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| Mass confusion! http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=11999 |
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| Author: | Jman22 [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mass confusion! |
What happens when you use Pyxis of Pandemonium to put Humility, Enchanted Evening, Night of Soul's Betrayal, Opalesence, Conspiracy (naming humans), Shared Triumph (naming humans), Titan of Eternal Fire, Confusion in the Ranks, and Grip of Chaos into play using the second ability? |
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| Author: | Filobel [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
Jman22 wrote: What happens when you use Pyxis of Pandemonium to put Humility, Enchanted Evening, Night of Soul's Betrayal, Opalesence, Conspiracy (naming humans), Shared Triumph (naming humans), Titan of Eternal Fire, Confusion in the Ranks, and Grip of Chaos into play using the second ability? Well, I guess the first question had to be humility opalescence related, uh? Problem is, I need more info. Opalescence + humility interact differently based on their timestamp. Since they came into play at the same time, the active player decides the timestamp order. What did the active player decide? Also, thanks slobad! |
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| Author: | Yarium [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
Jman22 wrote: What happens when you use Pyxis of Pandemonium to put Humility, Enchanted Evening, Night of Soul's Betrayal, Opalesence, Conspiracy (naming humans), Shared Triumph (naming humans), Titan of Eternal Fire, Confusion in the Ranks, and Grip of Chaos into play using the second ability? Okay, let me consider this... Since it's not spelled out, I'll assume that all of these cards are entering the battlefield under the control of the same player. A time-stamp order will need to be figured as they are entering simultaneously, and whomever the active player is will get the privilege of doing so. (BEFORE ENTERING - Selecting creature types for Conspiracy and Shared Triumph) Layer 1 (no effects) Layer 2 (no effects) Layer 3 (no effects) Layer 4 (Opalescence, Enchanted Evening, Conspiracy) - Conspiracy is dependent on Opalescence, and Opalescence is dependent on Enchanted Evening - so Enchanted Evening first makes everything into enchantments, then Opalescence makes everything into an enchantment creature, then Conspiracy makes them all Humans. Layer 5 (no effects) Layer 6 (Humility, Titan of Eternal Fire) - Titan of Eternal Fire is dependent on Humility, so Humility applies first and removes the Titan's effects. So no flamethrowing Humans. Layer 7a (none) Layer 7b (Humility, Opalescence) - Since these are entering the battlefield simultaneously, the active player gets to choose the order. I'll say "Humility, then Opalescence" for Path A, and "Opalescence, then Humility" for Path B. Layer 7c (Night of Soul's Betrayal, Shared Triumph) - These don't apply, as Humility has removed their effects. Layer 7d & e (none) Okay, so... PATH A: Everything is an Enchantment Creature - Human in addition to its other permanent types with a power and toughness each equal to the card's converted mana cost. All player's Enchantment Creature Lands die for having 0 toughness or less. Grip of Chaos and Confusion in the Ranks do nothing, as their abilities have been removed by Humility. PATH B: Everything is an Enchantment Creature - Human with a power and toughness each equal to 1. Grip of Chaos and Confusion in the Ranks do nothing, as their abilities have been removed by Humility. EDIT: (see below) I think I got that right. Anyone want to check? |
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| Author: | Filobel [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
Why does confusion in the rank have its ability long enough to trigger? The ability itself is a normal trigger. Layer 2 won't care about it until it resolves. |
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| Author: | Yarium [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
I'm a bit confused then... does it trigger or no? It's not doing anything in the layer system. EDIT: Just checked... it seems like the triggered abilities still go on the stack, as the trigger condition was met. Very shortly thereafter the enchantment loses the ability for any future cards that enter the battlefield, but it still seems to be in effect at the moment it enters. In fact, even if a player somehow received a new copy of this card, it would trigger again as it itself entered the battlefield. As for why I have it in Layer 2, I actually just used that system as a way to mentally break everything down. I did not point out that the ability doesn't actually come from effects in Layer 2. EDIT: Found it. Okay, no triggers: Quote: 603.6b
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| Author: | Filobel [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
I think that quote fell a little short
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| Author: | Jman22 [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
He might have just been quoting the rule so we could look it up ourselves. But Yarium seems to have the correct application of layers in his earlier post (my nemesis, layers) |
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| Author: | GrifterMage [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
Jman22 wrote: What happens when you use Pyxis of Pandemonium to put Humility, Enchanted Evening, Night of Soul's Betrayal, Opalesence, Conspiracy (naming humans), Shared Triumph (naming humans), Titan of Eternal Fire, Confusion in the Ranks, and Grip of Chaos into play using the second ability? The game explodes because it knows you hate it.(Yarium basically figured out the right answer--no triggers, everything's a human, P/T depends on what the active player chose as timestamps--except Opalescence, which'll always be 1/1.) |
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| Author: | Filobel [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
GrifterMage wrote: Jman22 wrote: What happens when you use Pyxis of Pandemonium to put Humility, Enchanted Evening, Night of Soul's Betrayal, Opalesence, Conspiracy (naming humans), Shared Triumph (naming humans), Titan of Eternal Fire, Confusion in the Ranks, and Grip of Chaos into play using the second ability? The game explodes because it knows you hate it.(Yarium basically figured out the right answer--no triggers, everything's a human, P/T depends on what the active player chose as timestamps--except Opalescence, which'll always be 1/1.) Why would opalescence be a creature at all? |
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| Author: | Yarium [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
Grrr. stupid Opalescence... So everything OTHER than Opalescence is a creature - either 1/1 or p/t=cmc. As for the rule quote, it was late at night and copy-and-paste from the rules pdf wasn't working, so I got lazy and just wrote it The rule states that cards with entering the battlefield abilities on themselves that are modified will trigger based on the modification by continuous effects, and then lists an example that a card with an EtB effect has that effect removed by another card, and so won't trigger. |
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| Author: | GrifterMage [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
Filobel wrote: Why would opalescence be a creature at all? Gah. See, that's why I don't like offhandedly asking these kinds of "How complicated can we possibly make it, just for laughs?" questions. I'm so used to Opalescence ending up a creature in such scenarios--people usually put two of them in for kicks--that I just glossed over there only being one.
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| Author: | Jman22 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Q&A |
GrifterMage wrote: Filobel wrote: Why would opalescence be a creature at all? Gah. See, that's why I don't like offhandedly asking these kinds of "How complicated can we possibly make it, just for laughs?" questions. I'm so used to Opalescence ending up a creature in such scenarios--people usually put two of them in for kicks--that I just glossed over there only being one.I considered asking about two, but didn't |
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