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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:54 pm 
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Sheltering Ancient
Hardened Scales
Bazaar Trader

Scenario 1: Player A controls Sheltering Ancient. Player B controls Hardened Scales and a creature. Player A decides to pay the cost of putting a +1/+1 counter on an opponent's creature for each age counter on it.

Question 1: Will the creature get X+1 counters, where X is the number of age counters on the Ancient, or will it get 2*X counters?


Scenario 2: Player C controls both Sheltering Ancient and Bazaar Trader. At the beginning of their upkeep, Sheltering Ancient's CU ability triggers. In response, they use Bazaar Trader to give Sheltering Ancient to Player D.

Question 2: Can Player C put the +1/+1 counters on Sheltering Ancient?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:23 am 
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for scenario 1, I'm pretty sure it gets double the counters because each event happens separately. for scenario 2 I'm positive you can (although I have no idea why you'd want to) because the ability doesn't target.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:58 am 
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I don't think that's right. The "for each" in cumulative upkeep is just a calculation, not a sequence. You'd place all the counters simultaneously, so Hardened Scales would give each affected creature just one extra.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:29 am 
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One last question, and it alters Scenario 1: If Player B instead controlled a Doubling Season, their creature would only get X counters (X being the number of age counters on Sheltering Ancient), right?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:35 am 
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adeyke wrote:
I don't think that's right. The "for each" in cumulative upkeep is just a calculation, not a sequence. You'd place all the counters simultaneously, so Hardened Scales would give each affected creature just one extra.

you are correct:

702.23a [...] If [cost] has choices associated with it, each choice is made separately for each age counter, then either the entire set of costs is paid, or none of them is paid. [...]


:duel:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:37 am 
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Edacade wrote:
One last question, and it alters Scenario 1: If Player B instead controlled a Doubling Season, their creature would only get X counters (X being the number of age counters on Sheltering Ancient), right?

That's... hmm. it's a cost, which isn't covered, but it's happening as part of an effect, which is. I believe the latter part takes precedence and it's doubled, but adeyke is probably about to tell me I'm wrong.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:12 pm 
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Doubling Season does apply and does double it. You're right that it's both a cost and an effect, but the former isn't really relevant. You never have to ask if something is a cost or not to determine if Doubling Season applies to it. You just have to ask if it's an effect. If something is happening as a result of a spell or ability resolving, it's an effect.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:34 pm 
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Ok. Thanks for answers.

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