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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:08 pm 
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i get that it's a meme but, isn't the 'mana to stat' ratio 0:2 or 0/2 or 0?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:21 pm 
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zero and infinity are two sides of the same coin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:24 pm 
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neru wrote:
i get that it's a meme but, isn't the 'mana to stat' ratio 0:2 or 0/2 or 0?


Sure if you're going to be literal, but you know it's the other way around.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:24 am 
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razorborne wrote:
Mown wrote:
10.5 at best, assuming the value to mana cost is linear. Huffer and Misha are both worse than 4 mana cards, while Leokk is only +2 Health on an unplayable one. They're all in "somewhere between 3 and 4 mana" territory.

well, as Eph points out it's not unreasonable to count Leokk's bonus when considering Huffer and Misha's strength. you get the three together, and you get to attack with Huffer and likely block with Misha before they can remove Leokk. 13 still seems generous because Rocketeer isn't great and also their impact in the late game is very different from early, but I can see where the figure comes from.

:duel:

Either you get a Raid Leader, or you get a Rocketeer. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The reason Huffer attacks for 5 instead of 4 is counted in the mana cost of Raid Leader.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:36 am 
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10.5 mana for the price of 8 is still pretty insane. Imagine Thaurissan into this.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:50 am 
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It's the card I have the most difficulty making an evaluation of. I don't think just making a value assessment of the individual cards is necessarily accurate. Is North Sea Kraken a 7.5+3=10.5? Is Sprint a double Arcane Intellect, or is it three of them? (Interestingly, HS seems to value card draw at 3 for +1, and then 2 for every additional, while magic has 3 and 1.) Are Yeti, Pit Fighter and Boulderfist Ogre equally good?

I don't think it's outright bad. It provides imediate 5 damage in a class that likes to race, it goes wide without being all that susceptible to aoe, and with a taunt that protects it. However, would you really play this in anything but midrange, how much does an 8 drop need to do, and is it better than Ragnaros? The most annoying part of it is that it totally whiffs with the Elekk. Ultimately, I expect it to be a budget 1-of for midrange, and nothing else.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:00 am 
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Call of the Wild is better than Giant Sand Worm at least though I don't know why they made both hunter epics 8 mana. If hunter gets one or two cards that rewards it for playing a lot of beasts like a good version of King of Beasts than I think hunter midrange is a deck and call of the wild will definitely be a part of it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:45 pm 
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Mown wrote:
I don't think it's outright bad. It provides imediate 5 damage in a class that likes to race, it goes wide without being all that susceptible to aoe, and with a taunt that protects it. However, would you really play this in anything but midrange, how much does an 8 drop need to do, and is it better than Ragnaros? The most annoying part of it is that it totally whiffs with the Elekk. Ultimately, I expect it to be a budget 1-of for midrange, and nothing else.

I'd say it's significantly better than Ragnaros. You're getting 22 points of raw stats, plus 5 charge damage, taunt and a boardwide buff for a very aggressive price. Furthermore, it's a pretty resilient combo: there are precious few ways (especially in Standard) to answer it and still come ahead. You can't neatly BGH, silence or Hex the entire trio, and AoE options that can nail all three are very expensive and/or kill your own board as well.

What's more, CotW is like Dr. Boom in the sense that it's almost never a wrong decision to play it. If you're behind, it's a great comeback mechanic. If you're tied or ahead, you instantly cement a backbreaking advantage. Yet unlike the good Doctor, you can play TWO - and, unlike Mysterious Challenger, the second one will be just as effective as the first one.

Yes, Face Hunter won't run it, but that's OK: Aggro Paladin decks based on Divine Favor didn't run Tirion, but that didn't make the latter any less ridiculous in other Paladin decks.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:32 pm 
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Thinking about it it's kinda insane if you run 2 CotW and 2 Highmanes and maybe a ram wrangler. You'll almost always have board control. Yeah you're slow in the early game but hunter has traps to slow people down so it's probably fine.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:44 pm 
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I read that hunter was originally intended for that style of play. Controlling the board while the hero power created inevitability.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:55 pm 
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Ragnaros can be fetched with Elekk, one of the better 2-drops after Scientist and Creeper are both leaving, it has more immediate damage in a deck that pressures life totals earlier than most midrange decks, and Highmane baits out most of the removal that takes out Ragnaros (with BGH being the most expected card to be nerfed). Ragnaros has, of course, a lot of variance. We'll see I guess, but my experiences with Ragnaros have been pretty positive, what little I played with him. Ultimately I'm rather skeptical towards Midrange Hunter being viable in the first place, losing a lot of important curve cards. Creeper, Scientist, Shredder, Belcher and Loatheb leaves. Houndmaster becomes a lot less reliable without Creeper, Bow becomes worse without Scientist. idk, there are grim times ahead, but maybe they will get some quality cards for those slots like Shaman has been.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:57 pm 
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yogg-saron, hope's end

Yogg-Saron, Hope's End (10)
Neutral Minion (L)
Battlecry: Cast a random spell for each spell you've cast this game (targets chosen randomly).
7/5

spreading madness

Spreading Madness
Warlock Spell (R)
Deal 9 damage randomly split among ALL characters.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:04 pm 
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Jeweled Scarab takes Haunted Creepers place as value 2 drop and Tomb Spider in place of Shredder. Hunter's going to be a lot slower but it'll be able to attrition people out I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:14 pm 
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Hunters aren't made to attrition people out. I know Blizzard thought you could use Steady Shot like some kind of Drownyard, but it just doesn't compare to being able to use it for board control, and Priest and Warriors will just play Justicar and laugh at your 2 damage a turn. Midrange wins by taking board control long enough to start pushing face with minions and finish with your hero power and burst. You won't be able to get board control with a 2 mana Wisp or a 4 mana 3/3.

Yogg-Saron is such a meme card. I can't imagine a card that makes the game more lopsided after being played, there are so many ways in which he can just end the game, either for you or your opponent.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:45 pm 
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I feel like "targets chosen randomly" is a really bad idea, given that a lot of cards leave targeting pretty open in case you can find a reason to target your own dudes.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:51 pm 
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Most of the cards are net bonus, because of things like summoning spells, (pseudo) draw spells and secrets, but it has a lot of awful outcomes. Pyroblast yourself in the face, Naturalize anything, Ancestor's Call in a massive threat, or Stand Against Darkness + Doom + Astral Communion for maximum misery.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:58 pm 
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How does this work with discover (e.g. Raven Idol)? Does it just give you a card at random?

If not, what would happen if you played Yogg right at the end of your turn, and the Raven Idol gets cast after your turn is already over?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:05 pm 
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yog fully automates everything. choices are made automatically. according to reddit.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:25 pm 
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Cool. Someone's compiled a huge summary of confirmed information about how Yogg works: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/co ... on_how_it/

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:08 pm 
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Yogg pretty much says "Battlecry: Somebody is going to to die. We don't know who but at least one person is about to have a bad time."


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