ugh barf people actually considering worse mana leak

The problem isn't Evolutionary Leap. Although quite powerful (and probably the most powerful single card in the 1 vs 1 meta) it is only a 2-of, with no tutors, so it isn't like you'll see it every game (I haven't seen it in 10 games straight in my Golgari Control...I went back in to make sure I didn't take it out!).

The issue is that anyone who looked at the card pool saw that the enchantments available to this card pool were very, very strong (Evolutionary Leap, Sphinx's Tutelage, Flameshadow Conjuring, Sigil of the Empty Throne, to name a few). Quite a few decks, especially Mill, rely on one of those cards to win. Since Green has 2 creatures that deal with enchantments and artifacts (one of which is tutor-able), it is in the position to deal with these popular decks.

I don't think +1 solemn offering is horrible. Dismissals are generally pretty bad in this game though. There are quite a few good targets but they are very often dead in hand too. In this deck I'd say the Angelic edicts, bad as they are, are probably way better. Disperse is key to protect your enchantments; and since we have such horrible counterspells, the most mana efficient way. Gegliosh and Moebius use countermand, so to each their own I guess.
If this pool would have Clash of wills creature light control decks would be in WAY better shape.




The added problem is that the tutoring a for the enchantment hate dorks and the digging through Evolpea for big green giant hexproof FOTM is all happening at a 0 opportunity cost because of the POWAH of evolpea. All you need to do besides that is to build in some support and some other threats and call it a rank 40 deck. It's boring; even though I can name maybe 7 different viable variants of the archetype; they are all centered around that synergy.

Do they NEED evolpea to win ? No, they just can draw their big furry monster/ reclamation sage naturally too .
Do I think these decks are unbeatbale ? No, I just find it sad that besides ONE mill deck the only truly viable control decks are all green based; because of a combo of 3 cards in that colour.
Ok I lie; Jeskai control is also a contender, but that deck has a very high variance in my experience.

OK, first off, EvoLeap...your dyslexia hurts. You can copy and paste if it makes it easier.

Second,PaelOve is not the problem. Neither is Gaea's Revenge (that's for you, Babs!) The problem is relying on a strategy of 3 cards that is pretty easily broken up since it isn't the only strong enchantment (see Seance for 2015) so everyone who isn't hellbent on killing you in the first 4-8 turns is running some hate most likely.

Evolutionary Leap makes the deck better...absolutely no doubt there. I knew that card was strong day one. In duels, if it were common or uncommon it would be insane. But at rare it doesn't break the meta. And no deck that is good in the meta is "centered" around that strategy as you can't rely on getting (or keeping) the card in play.

And Jeskai control is very janky. I wouldn't count on it to win you games fast or often.

See, this is why I am the only one in the Sultai deck thread advocating that people should be moving away from an all in Mill approach. Building the Sultai deck with an alternate wincon or 2 in mind and going only 2 tutelage or (dare I say it) 1 is very possible. Where are you in that discussion, since I agree with you completely.

Also, Jeskai is janky, but same applies : the deck has alternate wincons, it's just WAY less reliable than sultai, and has even less room for error; on a decent draw it can beat anything though (yes I know that goes for all decks, but Jeskai really has the tools vs early aggro and vs control; it just needs to draw the right mix; the redundancy in sultai is what makes it close to top tier imo).

PS: aeploveetahI

Damn, man, your Dyslexia has Aixelsyd!

I agree with you assessment of Jeskai...it just has so many removal spells available, with draw, it can just go crazy. However, all those spells are pretty specific. And if you stumble on mana early at all you are pretty well hosed, worse than most decks. Plus you never win early. Ever.

My issue with Sultai is the mana right now and lack of interest.
Yes, you need other wincons. I was over there for a while, but I don't think you get enough out of 3 colours to use it right now. That and the majority of the decks make me want to drown myself in Scotch.

ugh barf people actually spamming without one helpful thing to say.

I don't play whatever is "right" to play, I played UWC when Ravager Was the metagame.
I played when Power Sink was Standard legal in Ice Age, so what? Clash of Wills now seems frantic because of the three barely mediocre c-spells.
This is my hobby nowadays, so I at least try doing something new, not just go meta and say "Look at me, I'm ranked 40".


Thanks for the rest of the tips, I reckon we'd have to wait the expansion to see if the deck would get some tools.
I will try more offerings and see, at least it gains life, we lack that as well.

Oh snap, Babs been called out!

Just now saw Kryder's answer (not the snap one
At first for grinding I got 2 Thieves and burned anything preventing her from coming through, I'm not sure what White adds to it. Sultai is different tech, at the least it has better chump blockers.

Assuming for time being with the current pool the Tutelages go out as wincon, what would be good to use to create more stability before dropping the Disciple & Alhammeret ftw?

alright so this list is basically just a modified version of a modified version of mobious' list basically I added green, and now I'm cutting green cause the color added too little and until we get some sweet Alara action up in magic duels it probably won't work

anyways on to the deck list
One Time at Bant Camp

Jailbird
x2 grasp of the hieromancer
x2 celestial flare
x1 displacement wave
x3 blessed spirits
x4 heliod's pilgrim
x1 auramancer
x3 sphinx's tutelage
x4 claustrophobia
x2 solemn offering
x1 archangel of tithes
x4 suppression bonds
x3 inspiration
x1 Hixus, prison warden
x2 sigil of the empty throne
x2 tragic arrogance
x1 angelic edict
x10 plains
x8 islands
x2 glacial fortress
x4 azorius guildgate

pretty simple just don't let your opp play the game and win

I wouldn't want Displacement Wave in a deck where it can kill 4/4 tokens. Maybe get Gideon in so you have can sometimes rockout a T1/2 play?

I'm thinking:

-1 Displacement Wave
-3 Inspiration
-3 Sphinx Tutelage
-2 Grasp of the Heiromancer

+3 Jhessian Thief
+4 Nimbus Wings
+1 Celestial Flare
+1 Something else.. maybe Hixus or another Angelic Edict.

Or something like that. Thief will give you more bang for your buck than Inspiration, especially if you slap a Wings on it.

alright did those changes also went -2 island +2 plains for obvious reasons (there are now 7 blue cards in teh deck)

Very pretty deck. Chanceless vs pretty much any tryhard netdeck of the 'big five'.

Just had a very nice hand vs a golgari control card for card copy of the one Kryder posted over in that thread. Throughout the game had access to arrogance (forced to play it into 1 myr, 2 visionary, 1 winnower), flare for gaia (forced to claustro a zombie token to hit), offering for evolpea (got 2 activations of so did it's job), triple suppression bond (vs 2 planeswalkers, Bellower, conclave naturalists), auramancer (forced to play to stop being pinged to death. reave souled next turn) etc.

Did not matter. Got absolutely destroyed. Guy at the other side of the table was probably laughing out loud.

It lacks early dudes, is often forced into card disadvantage to stay alive; majority of its plays are incredibly mana inefficient; it's a reactive deck that does 99% of everything at sorcery speed. One of it's boardwhipes dies to a fleshbag, it's wincons (all 2 of them) die to tutourable recurrable 3 drops.

Sorry it's no good, no matter how good it looks on paper.

Duels 14 had a great monowhite aura deck with sigil in it that did everything at sorcery speed. But it had 2 drop lifelinkers; 4x kor spiritdancer, 2/3x idyllic tutor, pacifism. Unfortunately the card quality isn't there to make this idea work in this pool.

My Version of Megabeasts's Tap everything Azorius Deck (viewtopic.php?p=336948#p336948):

WU TapBeast [Origins]

1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
3 x Elite Vanguard

2 x Knight of the White Orchid
3 x Dauntless River Marshal
4 x Topan Freeblade
4 x Grasp of the Hieromancer
4 x Disperse

3 x Jhessian Thief
4 x Frost Lynx
1 x Claustrophobia

2 x Kytheon's Irregulars
4 x Suppression Bonds

2 x Willbreaker

9 x Plains
7 x Islands
2 x Glacial Fortress
1 x Rogue's Passage
4 x Azorius Guildgate

What did you cut to get in 4x Suppression Bonds besides 2x Claustrophobia?

Why Lieutenant instead of Knight of the White Orchid? I think Lieutenant is a vastly superior card.. the only weakness is to Twin Bolt.

---Ghetto Tapdancers---


1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros

2 x Throwing Knife
2 x Relic Seeker
3 x Consul's Lieutenant
2 x Knight of the White Orchid
3 x Dauntless River Marshal
2 x Topan Freeblade
4 x Grasp of the Hieromancer
4 x Disperse

3 x Jhessian Thief
4 x Frost Lynx
3 x Anchor to the Aether

2 x Kytheon's Irregulars
2 x Willbreaker

12 x Plains
6 x Islands
2 x Glacial Fortress
3 x Azorius Guildgate


This is how I like my tapdancer, Just Because:

I get to wave knives at demons and dragons and then they join my dance !

Couple of things about Throwing Knife.

The low curve of the deck makes it so sneaking this thing in turn 4 and playing another 2 drop is quite likely.

Consul's Lieutenant, Knight of the White Orchid, Jhessian Thief, look way cooler with knives, the thief even gets excited just by casting it.

Willbreaker turns knife into a midrange blowout.

When all else fails, it's a THROWING KNIFE. Just throw it at your opponent for the win !

I also think you should consider anointer of champions over elite vanguard darkstar