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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:45 am 
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Abbot is still strictly better than Umara Entangler. Just think the card you exile is not your top card, but 3rd from the bottom. You just have an extra chance to play it, which is a Chance at card advantage on the Entangler.
I have chosen to not play the revealed card or to play Abbot as a 2-drop or to dig for lands before. It sometimes is the correct play; and while it may seem bad to not take your chance at card advantage, an Umara Entangler would just be a 2/1 not giving you that Option.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 9:16 am 
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I notice this thread hasn't gotten much love lately, but we're discussing various burn and prowess combination decks over here:

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=14820


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 9:41 pm 
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Here's my version of prowess I've been running. It focuses mostly on the cheap pump spells and cantrips. Usually wins happen with 2 prowess dudes hitting like 10 or 15 damage in one turn when the opponent doesn't expect it, or can't avoid it because one's flying and the other is Slipped for example.

1 mana

2x Rush of Adrenaline
4x Titan's Strength
4x Expedite
4x Slip Through Space

2 mana

3x Umara Entangler
4x Mage-Ring Bully
3x Stormchaser Mage
2x Abbot of Keral Keep

3 mana

3x Jhessian Thief
3x Grip of the Roil
2x Exquisite Firecraft
2x Fevered Visions
2x Jori En, Ruin Diver

Land

8x Island
10x Mountain
2x Wandering Fumarole
2x Sulfur Falls

Thoughts?

edits: changed stuff around a bunch of times, final version now I think.


Last edited by Illerminaty420 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:17 pm, edited 13 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 2:05 pm 
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I rebuilt the unreliable conventional prowess deck into a burning/drawing machine. Its honestly good and stands a chance against any other deck in the meta. Doesn't like lifegain though...
I call it burness.
The original idea was to revisit pre-update Rdw aggro and increase the creature density. I stripped the cantrips and replaced them with burn, kept all the draw and added more. Ended up cutting the non evasive prowess guys except for Abbot. Added flash flyers but cut them to 2. The idea is to get through maximum damage and keep the 2 spells per turn tempo. Pyromancer's Assault with Fevered visions and/or Jori is very strong. Its free burn. The end result is creature light again, but the burn keeps the damage Rolling and Geistblast can really get nasty.

Creature(16)
3x Insolent Neonate (Red card draw and is evasive. Usually at least one extra damage and if they try to kill him get rid of a land and get some more burn. He's a keeper)
2x Rattlechains (flash flyer. Usually does 2 or 4 damage. Not sold yet)
2x Thing in the Ice (underperforming. Is close to getting cut)
2x Abbot of Keral Keep (useful for keeping the spells rolling. Just remember to keep a land in your hand when you play him)
3x Stormchaser Mage (this guy is the deck's ninja. Total awesomeness. Keeper)
1x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh (Chandra was made for this deck. If she survives til next turn, flipping is almost guaranteed. Watch out for the Priority bug)
2x Jori En, Ruin Diver (card draw engine. Don't play him second, you won't draw)
1x Akoum Firebird (still good. Everyone tries to exile him but haste 3/3 flyer can do some damage)


Instant(13)
3x Fiery Impulse (I'm not a huge fan of this card, but its kept its own. Sometimes a lack of targets keeps you from playing your second spell)
3x Titan's Strength (with evasion and prowess, this is awesome. Scry is a big pus)
2x Fall of the Titans (not as good as in convential prowess, but still strong)
3x Twin Bolt (I missed this card. Plenty of targets still, burn to face is good too. Every point matters)
2x Geistblast (burn early and don't forget its in the graveyard. Copying Titan's Strength is sweet too)

Sorcery(4)
1x Avacyn's Judgment (used to be 2. Underperformed so at 1 now. Its basically the 4th Twin Bolt that can go fireball with a Neonate)
2x Exquisite Firecraft (auto-include in a burn deck)
1x Devour in Flames (burn them walkers. Also good for guys with big asses. This card is finding its way into all my decks)

Enchantment(4)
2x Fevered Visions (this card is burn's wet dream. Gives you more burn and keeps on damaging your opponent. Gives your opponent cards? Who cares? Yours burn...)
2x Pyromancer's Assault (this card has performed well. It is a bit expensive and if you don't get draw its less good, but still solid. Like I said, free burn)

Artifact(1)
1x Tamiyo's Journal (this card has performed so well in some of my other decks that I decided to throw one in here to fuel the draw and to not have rely on luck to get Firecraft.)

Land(22) (used to be 20, but you can't get stuck at 2 land)
6x Island
2x Wandering Fumarole
9x Mountain
3x Highland Lake (I really dislike tap lands)
2x Sulfur Falls

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... f8ebcd1d4c

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

Barney, if you read this, I really feel a Rdw vibe with this deck. It satisfies that part of me that wants to play mono-red, but izzet feels much stronger. I don't have a 10-0 record with it, but I urge you try it out. Hope you and anyone who takes it for a spin enjoy it.
Any suggestions for improvements are welcome. Its not a final build yet. For example, I'd like to throw in some Fiery tempers but for some strange reason, with only 18% of SOI left to unlock I still have 0...

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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 8:32 pm 
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Haven_pt wrote:
I rebuilt the unreliable conventional prowess deck into a burning/drawing machine. Its honestly good and stands a chance against any other deck in the meta. Doesn't like lifegain though...
I call it burness.
The original idea was to revisit pre-update Rdw aggro and increase the creature density. I stripped the cantrips and replaced them with burn, kept all the draw and added more. Ended up cutting the non evasive prowess guys except for Abbot. Added flash flyers but cut them to 2. The idea is to get through maximum damage and keep the 2 spells per turn tempo. Pyromancer's Assault with Fevered visions and/or Jori is very strong. Its free burn. The end result is creature light again, but the burn keeps the damage Rolling and Geistblast can really get nasty.

Creature(16)
3x Insolent Neonate (Red card draw and is evasive. Usually at least one extra damage and if they try to kill him get rid of a land and get some more burn. He's a keeper)
2x Rattlechains (flash flyer. Usually does 2 or 4 damage. Not sold yet)
2x Thing in the Ice (underperforming. Is close to getting cut)
2x Abbot of Keral Keep (useful for keeping the spells rolling. Just remember to keep a land in your hand when you play him)
3x Stormchaser Mage (this guy is the deck's ninja. Total awesomeness. Keeper)
1x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh (Chandra was made for this deck. If she survives til next turn, flipping is almost guaranteed. Watch out for the Priority bug)
2x Jori En, Ruin Diver (card draw engine. Don't play him second, you won't draw)
1x Akoum Firebird (still good. Everyone tries to exile him but haste 3/3 flyer can do some damage)


Instant(13)
3x Fiery Impulse (I'm not a huge fan of this card, but its kept its own. Sometimes a lack of targets keeps you from playing your second spell)
3x Titan's Strength (with evasion and prowess, this is awesome. Scry is a big pus)
2x Fall of the Titans (not as good as in convential prowess, but still strong)
3x Twin Bolt (I missed this card. Plenty of targets still, burn to face is good too. Every point matters)
2x Geistblast (burn early and don't forget its in the graveyard. Copying Titan's Strength is sweet too)

Sorcery(4)
1x Avacyn's Judgment (used to be 2. Underperformed so at 1 now. Its basically the 4th Twin Bolt that can go fireball with a Neonate)
2x Exquisite Firecraft (auto-include in a burn deck)
1x Devour in Flames (burn them walkers. Also good for guys with big asses. This card is finding its way into all my decks)

Enchantment(4)
2x Fevered Visions (this card is burn's wet dream. Gives you more burn and keeps on damaging your opponent. Gives your opponent cards? Who cares? Yours burn...)
2x Pyromancer's Assault (this card has performed well. It is a bit expensive and if you don't get draw its less good, but still solid. Like I said, free burn)

Artifact(1)
1x Tamiyo's Journal (this card has performed so well in some of my other decks that I decided to throw one in here to fuel the draw and to not have rely on luck to get Firecraft.)

Land(22) (used to be 20, but you can't get stuck at 2 land)
6x Island
2x Wandering Fumarole
9x Mountain
3x Highland Lake (I really dislike tap lands)
2x Sulfur Falls

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... f8ebcd1d4c

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

Barney, if you read this, I really feel a Rdw vibe with this deck. It satisfies that part of me that wants to play mono-red, but izzet feels much stronger. I don't have a 10-0 record with it, but I urge you try it out. Hope you and anyone who takes it for a spin enjoy it.
Any suggestions for improvements are welcome. Its not a final build yet. For example, I'd like to throw in some Fiery tempers but for some strange reason, with only 18% of SOI left to unlock I still have 0...

What do you think of slipping in some Fiery Temper in? It can burn a creature or go straight to the other guy's face, plus your Insolent Neonate gives you a discard outlet for the madness.


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 1:26 am 
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Here's my version of prowess I've been running. It focuses more on the cheap pump spells and cantrips and excludes some stuff like Jori En, Ruin Diver and Fevered Visions to try to make it even faster. Usually wins happen with 2 prowess dudes hitting like 10 or 15 damage in one turn when the opponent doesn't expect it, or can't avoid it because one's flying and the other is Slipped for example. One thing I'm stuck on though is whether I should include Exquisite Firecraft or not. I keep changing it up pretty much every game between the 1 Treason, 1 Firecraft, 1 of each, 2 Firecraft, 2 Firecraft and 1 Treason, etc, but when I do that I have trouble deciding what to cut for them.

1 mana

3x Rush of Adrenaline
4x Titan's Strength
4x Expedite
4x Slip Through Space

2 mana

4x Umara Entangler
2x Abbot of Keral Keep
4x Mage-Ring Bully
3x Stormchaser Mage
4x Infectious Bloodlust

3 mana

3x Jhessian Thief
3x Grip of the Roil
1x Act of Treason

Land

8x Island
9x Mountain
2x Wandering Fumarole
2x Sulfur Falls

Thoughts?


I still think Fevered Visions is exactly the card this deck is looking for - helps you draw into what you need and deals some damage to your opponent - especially if they run control.
I'm not convinced on Infectious Bloodlust; how have your experiences been with it? It would be the card I'd consider cutting completely for two Visions, the fourth Rush of Adrenaline and the second copy of Act of Treason, Exquisite Firecraft or Fall of the Titans.

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 4:03 am 
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Modulo wrote:

I still think Fevered Visions is exactly the card this deck is looking for - helps you draw into what you need and deals some damage to your opponent - especially if they run control.
I'm not convinced on Infectious Bloodlust; how have your experiences been with it? It would be the card I'd consider cutting completely for two Visions, the fourth Rush of Adrenaline and the second copy of Act of Treason, Exquisite Firecraft or Fall of the Titans.


Bloodlust has been really good actually. It's a prowess trigger, gives damage and haste, synergizes really well with mage-ring bully, and stormchaser mage because of flying it usually attacks every turn anyways, and it replaces itself most of the time (exile/disperse cards are a bitch though), so really solid card all around I feel.

I've also cut treason complety lately and instead I'm running two firecraft. Treason can be better in certain situations by stealing a blocker and giving you an extra attacker it can give you more than the 4 damage from firecraft, but firecraft is more useful in a variety of situations so I think it's better. Fall of the titans also could be good but it has a pretty high mana cost to make it effective so I don't like it much since this deck tries to win fast and doesn't have a lot of lands.

I might reconsider fevered visions. I don't like drawing it against other aggro decks since they can dump their hand quick and stay under the 4 card limit, when that situation happens it pretty much benefits both players equally but it makes you lose 3 mana to play it when you could have played something or else or had another card in hand. Also even against non-aggro there's times when you have a bunch of cards in hand and the opponent has only 1 or 2, you don't want to play it because it will give them more options, and again it will end up helping the opponent more than it helps you. Still though those kinds of situations don't happen every game, and the 2 damage per turn can add up, it's pretty tough to decide if I want it or not. The problem is that if I don't cut bloodlust there's not really much else you can cut. You need the all the creatures and cantrips you can get, so all that's left is pretty much titan's strength and rush of adrenaline, and they're both really useful as well for the damage, and scry/trample.


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 4:33 am 
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Kirito wrote:
Haven_pt wrote:
I rebuilt the unreliable conventional prowess deck into a burning/drawing machine. Its honestly good and stands a chance against any other deck in the meta. Doesn't like lifegain though...
I call it burness.
The original idea was to revisit pre-update Rdw aggro and increase the creature density. I stripped the cantrips and replaced them with burn, kept all the draw and added more. Ended up cutting the non evasive prowess guys except for Abbot. Added flash flyers but cut them to 2. The idea is to get through maximum damage and keep the 2 spells per turn tempo. Pyromancer's Assault with Fevered visions and/or Jori is very strong. Its free burn. The end result is creature light again, but the burn keeps the damage Rolling and Geistblast can really get nasty.

Creature(16)
3x Insolent Neonate (Red card draw and is evasive. Usually at least one extra damage and if they try to kill him get rid of a land and get some more burn. He's a keeper)
2x Rattlechains (flash flyer. Usually does 2 or 4 damage. Not sold yet)
2x Thing in the Ice (underperforming. Is close to getting cut)
2x Abbot of Keral Keep (useful for keeping the spells rolling. Just remember to keep a land in your hand when you play him)
3x Stormchaser Mage (this guy is the deck's ninja. Total awesomeness. Keeper)
1x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh (Chandra was made for this deck. If she survives til next turn, flipping is almost guaranteed. Watch out for the Priority bug)
2x Jori En, Ruin Diver (card draw engine. Don't play him second, you won't draw)
1x Akoum Firebird (still good. Everyone tries to exile him but haste 3/3 flyer can do some damage)


Instant(13)
3x Fiery Impulse (I'm not a huge fan of this card, but its kept its own. Sometimes a lack of targets keeps you from playing your second spell)
3x Titan's Strength (with evasion and prowess, this is awesome. Scry is a big pus)
2x Fall of the Titans (not as good as in convential prowess, but still strong)
3x Twin Bolt (I missed this card. Plenty of targets still, burn to face is good too. Every point matters)
2x Geistblast (burn early and don't forget its in the graveyard. Copying Titan's Strength is sweet too)

Sorcery(4)
1x Avacyn's Judgment (used to be 2. Underperformed so at 1 now. Its basically the 4th Twin Bolt that can go fireball with a Neonate)
2x Exquisite Firecraft (auto-include in a burn deck)
1x Devour in Flames (burn them walkers. Also good for guys with big asses. This card is finding its way into all my decks)

Enchantment(4)
2x Fevered Visions (this card is burn's wet dream. Gives you more burn and keeps on damaging your opponent. Gives your opponent cards? Who cares? Yours burn...)
2x Pyromancer's Assault (this card has performed well. It is a bit expensive and if you don't get draw its less good, but still solid. Like I said, free burn)

Artifact(1)
1x Tamiyo's Journal (this card has performed so well in some of my other decks that I decided to throw one in here to fuel the draw and to not have rely on luck to get Firecraft.)

Land(22) (used to be 20, but you can't get stuck at 2 land)
6x Island
2x Wandering Fumarole
9x Mountain
3x Highland Lake (I really dislike tap lands)
2x Sulfur Falls

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... f8ebcd1d4c

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

Barney, if you read this, I really feel a Rdw vibe with this deck. It satisfies that part of me that wants to play mono-red, but izzet feels much stronger. I don't have a 10-0 record with it, but I urge you try it out. Hope you and anyone who takes it for a spin enjoy it.
Any suggestions for improvements are welcome. Its not a final build yet. For example, I'd like to throw in some Fiery tempers but for some strange reason, with only 18% of SOI left to unlock I still have 0...

What do you think of slipping in some Fiery Temper in? It can burn a creature or go straight to the other guy's face, plus your Insolent Neonate gives you a discard outlet for the madness.


My thoughts exactly, but apparently you didn't read my post until the end. All 4 Fiery tempers are probably in the last 3 or 4 boosters I haven't unlocked yet.

Feel free to try it out though. Let me know how it goes.

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 9:14 am 
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Haven_pt wrote:
Kirito wrote:
Haven_pt wrote:
I rebuilt the unreliable conventional prowess deck into a burning/drawing machine. Its honestly good and stands a chance against any other deck in the meta. Doesn't like lifegain though...
I call it burness.
The original idea was to revisit pre-update Rdw aggro and increase the creature density. I stripped the cantrips and replaced them with burn, kept all the draw and added more. Ended up cutting the non evasive prowess guys except for Abbot. Added flash flyers but cut them to 2. The idea is to get through maximum damage and keep the 2 spells per turn tempo. Pyromancer's Assault with Fevered visions and/or Jori is very strong. Its free burn. The end result is creature light again, but the burn keeps the damage Rolling and Geistblast can really get nasty.

Creature(16)
3x Insolent Neonate (Red card draw and is evasive. Usually at least one extra damage and if they try to kill him get rid of a land and get some more burn. He's a keeper)
2x Rattlechains (flash flyer. Usually does 2 or 4 damage. Not sold yet)
2x Thing in the Ice (underperforming. Is close to getting cut)
2x Abbot of Keral Keep (useful for keeping the spells rolling. Just remember to keep a land in your hand when you play him)
3x Stormchaser Mage (this guy is the deck's ninja. Total awesomeness. Keeper)
1x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh (Chandra was made for this deck. If she survives til next turn, flipping is almost guaranteed. Watch out for the Priority bug)
2x Jori En, Ruin Diver (card draw engine. Don't play him second, you won't draw)
1x Akoum Firebird (still good. Everyone tries to exile him but haste 3/3 flyer can do some damage)


Instant(13)
3x Fiery Impulse (I'm not a huge fan of this card, but its kept its own. Sometimes a lack of targets keeps you from playing your second spell)
3x Titan's Strength (with evasion and prowess, this is awesome. Scry is a big pus)
2x Fall of the Titans (not as good as in convential prowess, but still strong)
3x Twin Bolt (I missed this card. Plenty of targets still, burn to face is good too. Every point matters)
2x Geistblast (burn early and don't forget its in the graveyard. Copying Titan's Strength is sweet too)

Sorcery(4)
1x Avacyn's Judgment (used to be 2. Underperformed so at 1 now. Its basically the 4th Twin Bolt that can go fireball with a Neonate)
2x Exquisite Firecraft (auto-include in a burn deck)
1x Devour in Flames (burn them walkers. Also good for guys with big asses. This card is finding its way into all my decks)

Enchantment(4)
2x Fevered Visions (this card is burn's wet dream. Gives you more burn and keeps on damaging your opponent. Gives your opponent cards? Who cares? Yours burn...)
2x Pyromancer's Assault (this card has performed well. It is a bit expensive and if you don't get draw its less good, but still solid. Like I said, free burn)

Artifact(1)
1x Tamiyo's Journal (this card has performed so well in some of my other decks that I decided to throw one in here to fuel the draw and to not have rely on luck to get Firecraft.)

Land(22) (used to be 20, but you can't get stuck at 2 land)
6x Island
2x Wandering Fumarole
9x Mountain
3x Highland Lake (I really dislike tap lands)
2x Sulfur Falls

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... f8ebcd1d4c

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

Barney, if you read this, I really feel a Rdw vibe with this deck. It satisfies that part of me that wants to play mono-red, but izzet feels much stronger. I don't have a 10-0 record with it, but I urge you try it out. Hope you and anyone who takes it for a spin enjoy it.
Any suggestions for improvements are welcome. Its not a final build yet. For example, I'd like to throw in some Fiery tempers but for some strange reason, with only 18% of SOI left to unlock I still have 0...

What do you think of slipping in some Fiery Temper in? It can burn a creature or go straight to the other guy's face, plus your Insolent Neonate gives you a discard outlet for the madness.


My thoughts exactly, but apparently you didn't read my post until the end. All 4 Fiery tempers are probably in the last 3 or 4 boosters I haven't unlocked yet.

Feel free to try it out though. Let me know how it goes.

O.O Whoops. Sorry.


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 9:35 am 
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No problem, it was a good suggestion anyway and all feedback is welcome.

I can probably say this is my best deck at the moment so anyone who likes to play burn should try it out.

On a side note, I am thinking of throwing in a Counterspell or two for a suprise effect, even though counterspells don't synergize with the 2 spell per turn tempo. Countering an opponent's key spell could be worth it though. What do you think?

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 1:26 pm 
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Haven_pt wrote:
No problem, it was a good suggestion anyway and all feedback is welcome.

I can probably say this is my best deck at the moment so anyone who likes to play burn should try it out.

On a side note, I am thinking of throwing in a Counterspell or two for a suprise effect, even though counterspells don't synergize with the 2 spell per turn tempo. Countering an opponent's key spell could be worth it though. What do you think?


I like it, as I'm a fan of countering. Just one Scatter to the Winds or Broken Concentration could throw your opponent off, especially if you hit something your deck doesn't like such as a Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet or a similar card that could make your opponent gain lots of life. It would also give you an answer to Ulamog or Plated Crusher against ramp.


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 6:25 am 
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Modulo wrote:
Abbot is still strictly better than Umara Entangler. Just think the card you exile is not your top card, but 3rd from the bottom. You just have an extra chance to play it, which is a Chance at card advantage on the Entangler.
I have chosen to not play the revealed card or to play Abbot as a 2-drop or to dig for lands before. It sometimes is the correct play; and while it may seem bad to not take your chance at card advantage, an Umara Entangler would just be a 2/1 not giving you that Option.


This. People are afraid of self mill for no good reason. The only real downside is that you are more vulnerable to mill.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:50 pm 
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Let me just say this: forget the conventional approach to izzet Prowess. Its an aggro/combo deck hybrid that can pull off some really satisfying wins and just dies horribly when your opponent kills your prowess guys.
The problem? The deck is totally prone to removal and sweepers and the lack of evasion of the prowess creatures (except Stormchaser).
Lets face it, the card pool is full of great removal and nearly every deck has it, so take a different approach.
First, like the good stuff decks, only run the best creatures.
Second, use all the great card advantage izzet has. That means Fevered visions, Jori, etc...
Third, burn to the face. Firecraft, Geistblast, Fiery Temper, Twin Bolt. There is plenty and can easily do 10 damage in a game.
So thats 10 damage to be done by your creatures before they die. And they will die, most of the time. So haste + evasion is good (Stormchaser, Firebird)
Keep creature count low works in your favor, especially when you have Fevered visions out. Why? Because they will draw removal. More removal than you have creatures so, they become dead cards. Dead cards that stay in the hand making them have 4+ cards and taking damage.
That and the fact that most decks are geared towards draw and card advantage, so they will have a hard time emptying their hands, thats not their game.
I've played T3 Fevered visions and opp dropped tutelage next turn and Still lost. Why? Card advantage
Why is burn usually a poor deck? Little to no card advantage. Burn just runs out of cards. But thats not the case here. Fevered visions is a howling mine that burns the opponent, jori gives you an extra card when you play 2 spells, big Jace scry and gives you a card. Put all 3 in play and you get 4 cards a turn. Your not gonna run out of cards... So watch them burn.
Then you have Pyromancer's Assault. Bad card? Probably in every deck except this one. The synergy with Jori is amazing. Its free, uncounterable burn, every turn. Its a clock, its a way to keep +1ing PWs in check, kill a blocker, etc... Its pure card advantage. Its expensive, especially compared to enchantments other colors get, but worth it in longer games.
So what's it weak against? Heavy life gain and I mean heavy not just 5-6 points, because thats only stalling you for 1 or 2 turns.
Enchantment hate. Luckily, even with all the Mill decks going around there isn't that much. There was a time when everyone had the feldwar cub and reclamation sage in their decks, not anymore.

Played right, it can beat most decks in the meta. It took me to R40. But it isn't a brainless deck, you need to plan ahead. For example, don't dump your hand, don't play all your creatures (Max 2 or 3 at a time). Why? Your gonna need those spells later to keep the 2 spells per turn tempo going.
Always put pressure on your opponent, there is nothing as threatening as having low life against burn. This will cause misplays and rage quits (played one guy who quit T3 after I T2 Stormchaser, T3 Stormchaser + Titan's Strength).
It is sometimes useful if you let your opponent think your playing conventional prowess, he won't expect so much burn.
Watch your own life total. Your usually ahead, but don't be caught unaware.
Don't go all out to win fast. Just keep the damage coming. The deck isn't about speed, its about tempo, take your time if you can afford to.
T3 Fevered visions is always a good play. It gives you more options and maximizes damage to your opponent.

So, here's some food for thought, I'll post my current and close to final decklist later, until then try these ideas in your own builds.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:18 pm 
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Haven_pt wrote:
On a side note, I am thinking of throwing in a Counterspell or two for a suprise effect, even though counterspells don't synergize with the 2 spell per turn tempo. Countering an opponent's key spell could be worth it though. What do you think?


I am not a fan of it. I think it will be a dead card too often. I think you are trying to be too tricky, which is something I often do to my own decks.

With that said, try it. You never know. When I try out odd cards, I will kind of consider them blank cards. When I draw them, if I am not happy that I drew it, I think about what card that is not already in my deck I wish it were. I make a note if I liked it, or wished it was something else. That is how cards migrate in and out of my decks.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:46 am 
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My takeaway on Izzet Prowess is that keeping the creature count low is the wrong way to go. You need to hit your creatures to have targets for your buff spells, and while great removal was added, most decks don't run gazillions. As soon as you have a creature on the board, you can give it haste, evasion, buffs or whatever.

I'm currently brewing ab Izzet Mono-red list, I'll Post it when I think it's decent enough.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:19 am 
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As promised, the current decklist:

Burness 2.0

Description
This is pretty close to a final build for my Izzet Burn/Prowess deck.

Creature(14)
3x Insolent Neonate (the deck needs 1 drops and this guy has performed well enough, could even go to 4 if I ever decide to put in more madness burn)
2x Thing in the Ice (doesn't flip very often, but when it does... Ouch. In a low creature count deck, its a removal magnets. Still, I prefer loosing this to loosing Stormchasers)
2x Abbot of Keral Keep (bugged and all, still a great card for keeping the 2 spell per turn tempo. Don't play him early unless I really have to, then keep a land or Sorcery to hold Priority, simple enough)
3x Stormchaser Mage (striking far into the heads of opponents. This guy does most of the legal work in the initial phase)
1x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh (another removal magnet, but if she sticks...)
2x Jori En, Ruin Diver (draw, draw, draw a card, gente down the Stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream...)
1x Akoum Firebird (can still pack a punch. The bird has an exile magnet)

Instant(15)
3x Fiery Impulse (I like this card in this deck, because it doesn't go to the face. Why? Because when in doubt of which card to use to remove a pesky creature, its this)
3x Titan's Strength (this card loves the Stormchaser. Scry is super useful too)
2x Fall of the Titans (can you say 2 for 1?)
4x Twin Bolt (you can't imagine how many tireless Trackers I've zapped with this card)
1x Fiery Temper (Wish I had Space for more of these. Only unlocked my first 1 in my 9th last SOI booster)
2x Geistblast (I wish it did 3 damage so often. Oh it does, but only after its in graveyard... Shame the copy effect doesn't trigger Jori or the pyro Assault)

Sorcery(4)
1x Avacyn's Judgment (the 5th Twinbolt, with perks)
2x Exquisite Firecraft (Firecraft, Firecraft, where for art thou Firecraft...)
1x Devour in Flames (just like Fiery Impulse but for big butts and PWs)

Enchantment(4)
2x Fevered Visions (see Jori En, Ruin Diver)
2x Pyromancer's Assault (la, la la , free burn, lála la la...)

Planeswalker(1)
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets (much better than the journal. Can draw you more burn or Bounce an expensive and pesky blocker)

Land(22)
2x Wandering Fumarole
6x Island
10x Mountain
2x Highland Lake
2x Sulfur Falls

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... ec2e536df9

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

Hoped you enjoy it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:22 am 
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Might as well post where I'm at, please note that this is far from a refined list.

Izzet Mono-red?!
Creatures (21):
3 x Goblin Glory-Chaser
4 x Insolent Neonate

2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
4 x Mage-Ring Bully
2 x Scourge Wolf
3 x Stormchaser Mage

1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

Non-creature spells (20):
4 x Expedite
2 x Molten Vortex
4 x Rush of Adrenaline
4 x Titan's Strength

4 x Infectious Bloodlust

2 x Exquisite Firecraft
2 x Fevered Visions

Lands(19):
11 x Mountain
2 x Sulfur Falls
2 x Wandering Fumarole
4 x Highland Lake

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:25 am 
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[quote="Modulo"]My takeaway on Izzet Prowess is that keeping the creature count low is the wrong way to go. You need to hit your creatures to have targets for your buff spells, and while great removal was added, most decks don't run gazillions. As soon as you have a creature on the board, you can give it haste, evasion, buffs or whatever.[quote]

I agree. When I see a Prowess deck and I have 1-2 removal in hand, I can pretty much count as a win.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:37 am 
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Modulo wrote:
Might as well post where I'm at, please note that this is far from a refined list.

Izzet Mono-red?!
Creatures (21):
3 x Goblin Glory-Chaser
4 x Insolent Neonate

2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
4 x Mage-Ring Bully
2 x Scourge Wolf
3 x Stormchaser Mage

1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

Non-creature spells (20):
4 x Expedite
2 x Molten Vortex
4 x Rush of Adrenaline
4 x Titan's Strength

4 x Infectious Bloodlust

2 x Exquisite Firecraft
2 x Fevered Visions

Lands(19):
11 x Mountain
2 x Sulfur Falls
2 x Wandering Fumarole
4 x Highland Lake


I get your idea. Your creature base isn't far from some.of my first prowess builds and the Goblin Tribal deck I posted in the mono Red thread. You've basically splashed blue for Fevered visions and Stormchaser, which are definetly worth it (in my burn deck, I also include Jori, TITI and big Jace).
But the Red part has underperformed in my experience.
Glory Chaser is a big example, its only good as a T1 drop, and even then everyone is used to having to kill him, so he usually dies pretty soon.
Neonate is good but you've include 0 madness cards, so he looses card advantage value. The rest, Stormchaser being the exception, lack evasion. For the pumps to be worth it, the damage has to get through.
Scourge Wolf is ok, but don't count on delirium. A fast deck is always going to.be irregular at gaining delirium, unless you build especially for it.
I hate running more than 1 Molten universe (drawing the 2nd is a totally dead card).
You have precious little burn/removal. Whats gonna happen if your opponent drops a TON of creatures? You stall. Without evasion or burn, things don't look good.
Sweepers... They're everywhere and this deck looks vulnerable. Fevered visions can help to rebuild, but its also helping your opponent draw more removal.
I kind of just criticized the whole deck, but this an archtype I have played a lot and really wanted to make work.
Problem is, that I came up against the dificulties I mentioned. I'm convinced that if you want to play aggro, White is the only viable path at the moment.
I really feel that Rdw and izzet Prowess need to envolve to be contenders.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:43 am 
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Wintervoid wrote:
Modulo wrote:
My takeaway on Izzet Prowess is that keeping the creature count low is the wrong way to go. You need to hit your creatures to have targets for your buff spells, and while great removal was added, most decks don't run gazillions. As soon as you have a creature on the board, you can give it haste, evasion, buffs or whatever.
Quote:

I agree. When I see a Prowess deck and I have 1-2 removal in hand, I can pretty much count as a win.


Thats just it, my opponent sees a prowess deck. My deck is a burn deck. Its camoflage. When they kill my guys, they get confident and think they're in control, but then comes the Fire...
I don't really mind if my creatures die, as long as they've done 10+ damage and gotten me into kill range. The rest is burn to the face.

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