I think Sigil of the Empty Throne could be a fine control deck win condition if you want to look outside of blue. I'm going to have a look at Abzan and Mardu later this evening.

I just want to say I have solved this deck type and I didn't see it for a long time since people were saying how bad going esper mill is versus grixis mill due to fact there are more sorceries. This is true, but the lightbulb moment came to me that all my games go long and counterspells are just as relevant because if I am tapping out to sweep earlier game anyways then I couldn't have countered and besides after you see my list you will see it's almost the same amount of instants as the Grixis version and finally Gaea's revenge can eat me since is why I am in this color to begin with.

Here's my list. Please test to see what i saw that sorceries are not contradictory to my instants.

2 Mana
2xReprisal
4xCelestial Flare
3xTelling Time
3xDisperse compared to grixis this is our main way to deal with auras or the flare with lone attacker instead of twin bolts
4xReave Soul if you dock this deck for running this sorcery please note it is in the grixis deck so apples to apples

3 Mana
3xSphinx's Tutelage Take it from me, running two of these oftentimes makes it so you don't see it till 30 cards into your deck. Protip===ppl are beginning to think they are smart by main decking a full set of Reclamation Sage so if you see green mana never cast this till you have either counter or a disperse ready to bounce it.

4 Mana
4xInspiration
4xCountermand
4xBone to Ash
2xLanguish

5 Mana
2xTragic Arrogance I have played lots of real magic and for deck consistency you have to run 4 copies of your key spells. Love it or hate it (i personally dislike this card at times) but this card (Languish 3 and 4) will and does save your ass. If it's late game (and this is beautiful thing about running the Sphinx's Tutelage style of deck, you can pitch these when you know you have control

Lands: This part I believe trumps my Grixis mill version because in my Grixis I resorted to running 2 thoptor lands to answer Gaea's Revenge and to then hopefully Fleshbag Marauder the Revenge. In Esper we do not have to worry bout running a fragile answer to a creature that wrecks us since we main deck celestial flares.

3xPlain
6xIsland
2xSwamp
2xDrowned Catacomb
2xIsolated Chapel
2xGlacial Fortress
3xAzorius Guildgate
3xDimir Guildgate
2xOrzhov Guildgate

Yes there's 25 lands and yes you need to hit your land drops since the whole initial argument of not running esper is because of sorceries. Well, we run the lands necessary to not fail. Thanks

Rogueassassin that is a reasonable list. I haven't unlocked all of my cards yet so I haven't bothered with testing my dream control list. Here are a few throughts.

Disperse - I realize it has some utility vs creatures, planeswalkers etc. but I don't think it is reliable enough to do the job. You have virtually 8 counterspells against creatures but only 4 of those hit enchantments. An early evolutionary leap can wreck you. We are in white so I would recommend one of white's many options vs enchantments.

Board wipes - I think twin bolt helps tremendously in keeping you control of the board and it synergizes with celestial flare. In general control decks want board wipes but Wizards has changed the card pool enough that it might be worth it to rethink that. Aggro is pretty weak ATM and twinbolt is amazing at taking care of little creatures.

Land - I would run 4x evolving wilds over so many guildgates. Evolving wilds won't fix 2 colors at once, but it is guaranteed to get you the color you need. In a deck with UU, WW and BB its important to have the best fixing you can get in all 3 colors.

In general I don't think Grixis has the best potential for creatureless mill / control. It is either Esper or Jeskai. Celestial flare is irreplaceable and white has the only real enchantment removal options. Really the issue is the black removal suite vs. the red one. Red offers 8 cheap instant speed removals, vs black having 4 cheap sorceries and 2 board wipes, plus fleshbag as an additional edict effect. Black control is very strong in this meta but its basically sorcery speed, red synergizes better with instants and celestial flare IMO.

Thanks for all your input. I have bounced back and forth on the land issue and will try it back to the Evolving wilds way. Never even considered Jeskal really now that we don't have the all mighty Anger of the Gods
Do you think Jeskal is worth it without having Languish? Maybe I guess cuz Twin bolt does do work against the right decks. Oh, and the enchantment removal is a very valid point. I am seeing so many people running full playsets of Solemn Offering and Reclamation Sage lol

What is your Dream Control list

It needs testing. The base right now is
Red
4 fiery impulse
4 twin bolt

White
4 celestial flare

Blue
3 telling time
2-3 sphinx's tutelage
4 countermand
4 bone to ash
3-4 inspiration

I am fairly certain about these slots. That is 28-30 cards, leaving me with 5-7 flex slots left to fill in my deck, which are to be filled depending on the meta.
"Flex slots" are mainly intended to be slots that can answer a variety resolved threats. These slots are more likely to be filled with 1x or 2x cards than 4x. I would consider disperse, calculated dismissal, displacement wave, reprisal, solemn offering, suppression bonds, angelic edict, and tragic arrogance.

Right now I am considering:
1 displacement wave
1 solemn offering
2 suppression bonds
1 angelic edict
2 tragic arrogance
But this may change on the meta, and depending on how much sorcery speed removal I want to run. This gives you 5 different cards that deal with resolved enchantments, suppression bonds has synergy with arrogance, etc.

Really diggin your list, rogue. First consistent mill deck I've played in this pool.

Test Post. Ignore This.

// Deck: esper control (60)

// Lands
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Glacial Fortress
3 Island
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Orzhov Guildgate
3 Plains
3 Rogue's Passage
3 Swamp

// Creatures
1 Archangel of Tithes
4 Deadbridge Shaman
1 Erebos's Titan
3 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
1 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer

// Spells
3 Calculated Dismissal
3 Celestial Flare
3 Countermand
3 Inspiration
2 Languish
3 Reave Soul
3 Reprisal
3 Unholy Hunger

// Sideboard
I run this on Xbox live magic duels. If you use please don't take credit give it 2 psycho989 my Xbox live id

So the one thing I found lacking in my Grixis Control deck was enchantment hate, and remembering how much of a boon Angelic Edict was in M2015, I decided to devote a serious effort to Esper. here's the list:



I just played three games with this today after I made some changes to its untested state based on some refining I did to my Grixis list. I lost the first one because I got manascrewed, topping out at 3 with no blue producers. I may have weathered it against most decks, as I did draw and play a Dimir Guildgate for the 4th land with an Inspiration in hand, but I discovered I was up against a land hate deck when my Guildgate got Mossed. I didn't draw any more land after that and ended up conceding when he mossed me a second time.

But even the best decks get landscrewed, and I'm pretty sure land hate isn't a big slice of the meta, so that didn't deter me. I ended up winning both the next matches I played, and one was against a RDW deck where the Angelic Edict saved my ass against Molten Vortex. Ended up just nuking whatever they played so many times, drew both Languishes and a had a good deal of recursion with Marauders, Cruel Revival and the Skaabs, until I finally was able to swing in with a Disciple until they were dead. I could have died because I forgot about Ravaging Blaze's spell mastery effect and I let it deal 2 damage to me when I was at 4 health, when they tried to kill my Disciple that was weakened from blocking a Goblin Arsonist. I had 9 instants or sorceries in the graveyard and plenty of mana open to soft counter it past where he was tapped out, but i chose to just buff the Disciple 1 instead. Maybe realizing that I missed the spell mastery effect, he played another one the next turn, but I had realized my mistake then and simply countered it. Only cost me 2 cards from my graveyard.

In the end, I had plenty more Disciple fuel even after pumping her for lethal, and he had 9 mountains out just sitting and doing nothing lol. IIRC he had 3 or 4 out when he played the Vortex, so that's 10-12 potential damage right there that the Edict prevented from happening. I can't wait to run across other annoying enchantments with this deck.

Some other thoughts on card choices: I initially had 2 each of Reprisal and Suppression Bonds in the deck as well, Bonds mostly to disable flipped PWs, but I decided that was too situational, and you wouldn't really want to use it in many other situations in a deck like this because of its anti-synergy with Fleshbag Marauder. So I cut it. And Reprisal I think is just a little too situational as well. And since the deck was a little removal heavy to the detriment of other slots, I decided to take them out to add in the 4th Inspiration which I hated not being able to fit, and the 3rd Skaab because their recursion is just too awesome.

Still I miss the cheap, effective removal of Fiery Impulse in my Grixis list. I tried a 4 color build but I'm not satisfied with its stability enough to take it online. I kinda want to try and fit Perilous Myrs in here too but I don't know what I'd take out. If I did put them in I'd probably swap out my draw package for 4 each of Alchemist's Vial and Artificer's Epiphany.

This is a decent list but honestly it could use some improvement. I really think that 3 color decks in this card pool need Evolving Wilds in their manabase in order to be stable. I would take out a couple of the Guildgates in favor of them, and cut down on the number of Rogue's Passages for the rest. I mean, you shouldn't really need any Rogue's Passages for a control deck, because by the time you are swinging with your finisher you should have the board locked down already. If you need to make your creature unblockable in order to get damage through, that means the board isn't locked down, and 5 land would be better spent contributing to that instead. Control is in it for the long game. There's no rush.

Similarly, Kytheon doesn't really fit in a control deck. Straight up, he's gotta be cut, either that or just call your deck something other than control. Not sure about Archangel of Tithes, I guess it could be a somewhat decent finisher in a control deck, but there are definitely better options, and regardless I would not have it in the same deck as Erebos' Titan because it just pulls the manabase too much in opposite directions, and Titan is a much better finisher, so I would ditch the Archangel too. The other PWs I'm personally not a fan of, but they could work. Kothophed often times loses you more life than you really want. I could cut him as well, and fill the space up with a pair of Gilt-Leaf Winnowers and Disciple of the Ring.

Deadbridge Shaman is a decent enough card. Usually a 2 for 1 with the discard effect when it dies to removal or trade. I'll have to ponder if I could fit them into any of my lists. One thing I am sorely disappointed in with this card pool so far is the lack of discard spells. Really wish we had a Duress type spell.

Cut the Unholy Hungers for Cruel Revival, just trust me on this one. It took a couple other posters here to make me see the light when I was running Flesh to Dust in my Grixis list, but it is highly worth it for the recursion with Fleshbag Marauder alone.

I gotta say, I'm not a fan of Calculated Dismissal simply because the longer a match goes on, the greater a chance it has at being a dead card, and most control matchups tend to go pretty long. I'm only running Countermand in all of my control lists until we get something better. That's a judgement call, I guess though.

Removal packages are also a judgement call, and I would personally make some difference choices than you did, but a lot of different configurations for removal work in this meta.

Overall, with some improvement here and there, that could definitely be a solid list.

I've been wanting to play Esper Control "just because", so I built one after I uploaded Selesnya to YouTube and I've been playing/tweaking it all night. The goal is to win via Disciple of the Ring no matter how long it takes.

2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Azorius Guildgate
2 x Orzhov Guildgate
2 x Dimir Guildgate
5 x Plains
4 x Island
5 x Swamp

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 x Alchemist's Vial
3 x Celestial Flare
3 x Telling Time
4 x Reave Soul

3 x Fleshbag Marauder
3 x Artificer's Epiphany
1 x Solemn Offering

2 x Inspiration
2 x Languish

1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Possessed Skaab
2 x Cruel Revival
1 x Tragic Arrogance
1 x Angelic Edict
1 x Necromantic Summons


It's a pretty classic control deck with a ton of land, of ton of removal, a ton of card draw, and a single wincon (Jace's ultimate doesn't count). It's still in the very early stages so I won't go all-in on card choice explanations, but I will be working on this one for the next little while.

Please don't suggest any counterspells because I tried them and they suck. All of them.

I'm surprised to see so many people running 3 color lists of whatever colors without any Evolving Wilds. Isn't it better to run some Evolving Wilds in order to fix your basics so the checklands enter play untapped more consistently? it seems to me like loading your deck with more Guildgates instead will cause the checklands to come into play tapped on a more frequent basis, thereby doubly increasing the occurrence of lands coming into play tapped. I like the manabase for my lists with 4 Evolving Wilds and 2 of the Guildgate of whatever two colors are most prevalent in the deck.

Playing Evolving Wilds takes two lands out of your deck where a Guildgate does not. In a classic control deck like this one I would never play them because I want to draw a lot of land and have access to a lot of mana.

As far as checklands, I'm running 14 basics. That's enough to make them consistently enter untapped.

yeah the more I play the more I think that esper is the true control shard this year

Grixis has always been my favorite shard ever since the Alara block came out, and I really want it to dominate, but it is just missing some key tools that are almost required in the current meta that Esper has access to, specifically Celestial Flare to fend off Gaea's Revenge and enchantment hate like Angelic Edict and Solemn Offering.

But I keep hoping that peoples' decks are gonna start to be packed with so much enchantment hate that soon people aren't gonna view enchantments as worthwhile and stop running them altogether. But I know that's not gonna happen lol.

Still, if we get some more decent nonbasic land options in expansions, I can see a 4 color control deck being viable that will have access to all the tools it needs. For most of last year I had three main control decks, a Grixis, an Esper and a Jeskai, and they were all lacking in something one of the others had, until we got the trilands and I was able to successfully merge them into a stable 4 color list. It would be great if someday I could do that here.

I guess that's a pretty fair assessment. Still, I think it calls for at least a couple simply for that extra insurance of fixing basics for the checklands (although I only have 12 basics in my lists), but also for the shuffling effect if you draw them later in the game, which can at least theoretically make a bit of a difference if you've scryed something to the bottom of your deck previously that you didn't need at the time, but could stand a chance of drawing later. But I think I am gonna go -1 Wilds and +1 Guildgate in all my control lists, making it an even 3-3 split.

Tried 4 games with this one so far in the hope that you could come up with the control deck that works.

GAME 1: Rakdos Sac/Steal. Win (both down to 3 life and just used the last instant in the graveyard to counter his Act of Treason which would have won him the game)

GAME 2: Izzet Thopters. Loss (starting hand 2 swamps and a plains, didn't draw land in 8 turns and within 2 Alchemist Vials, had a languish in hand too...)

GAME 3: Gruul Midrange/Ramp. Loss (Destroyed my only blue source with moss and always had a chump on board to make Fleshbag a waste, cast Outland Colossus turn 5 and unable to challenge)

GAME 4: Mono Blue Mill. Loss (Turn 3 Revelation and just counterspelled Solemn Offering under I left in frustration down to 9 cards)

EDIT - GAME 5: Gruul Midrange/Ramp again. Loss (wasn't going to continue this but this time it brought up another weakness. No way to deal with a resolved Niaa or any Planeswalker really).

Ignoring mill because this could be any deck and lose the same way, the 2 big things that screwed the games were not enough blue sources (although I suspect guild gates etc don't count as "lands" in the codes randomizer but that's another story) and wide aggro. Anything 4 power and up with another creature on their board becomes untouchable for most of the game if you don't draw Cruel Revival.

It's a shame because how this deck played (in the one game I could win) was pretty neat, and the Alchemist's Vials work wonders to slow down aggro. It's just a shame they don't draw you the one mana you had 10 draws deep to find...I'm not bitter...

I've since changed the deck a nice bit, adding a lot more draw power and all three copies of Possessed Skaab. I'm still fiddling with it but having just a single wincon is a bit annoying. It's pretty sad that the best control PWer we have is green.

Best card advantage planeswalker (arguably the best all round planeswalker), best mana advantage with land destruction AND ramp, most of the bombs are green, best enchantment in Evolutionary Leap and to top it off with more enchantment hate than white.

It's almost like Green this year is like White last year. The color with almost everything that the other colors fight to be the support of. B/G - Unparalleled lategame. R/G - possibly the most consistent deck and shines all stages apart from late vs B/G. W/G - Aggro with plenty of reach and boost with renown only beaten out by seriously on the play RDW/White Weenies. B/G is somewhat underplayed, but your Tempo deck is quite good and I'm use it in my 3 rotating main decks.

I've opened 30 boosters or so and I have pulled ONE green rare or mythic.

Then last night I finally pulled an Evolpea and I'm happier but i still can't move to green with only that and a stupid elf lord.