Hi All,

Thanks for the comments and suggestions on my LD Gruul.

And thanks for posting your list @licker and for your suggestions. I found that I was stripping the 21 lands out of the deck very quickly and I've gone away from a creature heavy option.

I went back through the all the posts and played with @InFaMoUsGeMiNi's "Lands" deck and @rogueassasin 's "LANDS.DEC". They were both running 30 lands, and I could see why.

Interestingly I didn't really understand the their commentary, until I built the decks and took them for a run. @roagueassain your point about the evolving Wilds being the hardest working card in the deck was spot on. I hadn't understood it until I played it and experienced the synergy with Zendikar's Roil 2 tokens, thin the deck, and put a land in play - for one card that is pretty amazing.

I started playing paper when I was studying at Caltech in the 90's, but gave it up when I came back to Oz - it was too expensive here and there wasn't a big community back then.

DOTP sucked me back in 15 years later, and I love it. Although given the time difference means it is hard finding many players online on the iPad late at night Australian Eastern Standard Time.

Anyway, I think that I play fairly well, but I really want to improve in the deck-building stakes.

This forum, @hakeem928, @CovertGoBlue @Stevolutionary from DOTP, all the YouTube channels have been awesome in teaching by example.

I realised that I'm not disciplined enough - I tend to want to put in my favourite cards, or the strongest cards even though they don't necessarily synergise with the aim of the deck that I am designing.

My insight from the LD decks was that really it was all around Card Advantage and Control. I had to be disciplined in taking out all the (awesome) cards that worked well in other decks if they didn't fit my theme.

I tried mono-green but it didn't have enough removal.

I tested a bunch of cards which had some synergy, Herald of the Pantheon, Evolutionary Leap, Gatecreeper Vine, Elvish Visionary,Zendikar Incarnate (all the usual suspects) etc, but realised that I didn't need them to make the deck work. Originally I thought Into the Maw of Hell was too expensive, but I've learned to love it. More 2 for 1 goodness and it seems to cause a a lot of Rage Quits

Currently the list is:

Gruul LD
1 x Molten Vortex
4 x Fiery Impulse
3 x Ravaging Blaze
4 x Twin Bolt
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Reclamation Sage
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
4 x Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
3 x Zendikar's Roil
3 x Into the Maw of Hell
2 x Gaea's Revenge

6 x Moutain
9 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Foundry of the Consuls
4 x Gruul Guildgate
4 x Evolving Wilds


I'm torn between Rhox Maulers and Gaea's Revenge as the finishers. I really like the trample, but the opponent usually has a hand full of useless creature removal, and Gaea's Revenge is a tough beast to stop.
keen to hear what other people's thoughts on the topic.

A couple of other notes.

Nissa, Vastwood Seer and the Reclamation Sage aren't there as creatures. Nissa lets you drop an extra land a turn (or draw a card) which generates more tokens and thins your deck. Reclamation Sage is purely there to deal with the Enchantments which currently dominate the iPad meta.

Molten Vortex is the secondary win condition - It can act as bait for anti-enchantment cards, it helps remove blockers, and it is a great finisher. Even though on the surface it is a nonbo with the Zendikar's Roil it has ben valuable.

I've had fun playtesting, with some wins and losses.

The losses were to a Dimir Mill deck, where I never drew a Zendikar's Roil. Frustratingly I had just drawn my GA for the win, but he milled the last 14 cards on my library before I could drop it.
The second loss was to a Sultai EvilPea Necromancy deck. Frustrating game - I was desperate and dropped my GR without a covering creature and lost it to a Fleshbag Marauder. After he managed to get the emblem on Liliana, Heretical Healer I couldn't keep a creature on the board.

On a brighter note I got the "Accelerated Production" Achievement for casting a 7 mana creature on turn 4 (there may be a bug there - I'm pretty sure I dropped GR on turn 5 after a turn 3 Nissa's Pilgrimage and a turn 4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss.

And I also achieved my original goal of frustrating and destroying every Rakdos Sac and Steal deck that I played against

Please take it for a spin. I'm keen for suggestions on how to improve it.

Thank you

Nish

PS Here in Australia every single newspaper says that Jarryd Hayne is singlehandedly winning the NFL for SF by himself

Here's my own current Gruul Monsters deck list:



One of the things that makes Gruul so good in this environment is that it is very consistent. The rarity restriction in this format means that control will sometimes fail to find a sweeper like Languish when it needs one. EvoLeap decks will sometimes fail to draw and play their name sake card. Gruul, however, has redundancy. While you can't run a full four copies of any of the "monsters" in the deck, you can run each of them in 2s and 3s and with 14 slots devoted to fat bodies, you are sure to pump out several 4/4, 6/6, 5/4, 8/5 and ∞/4 creatures, usually starting on turn 4 (thanks to Pilgrimage). Many decks can handle 1 or 2 of these creatures, but few decks can deal with a steady stream of them.

This version of the deck is relatively straightforward to play as it eschews tricks and gimmicks like land destruction, EvoLeap, card drawing, etc and instead runs just a minimum of ramp and color fixing, the aforementioned monsters, and a full compliment of burn to help clear a path for the fatties and, if needed, toss the last few points of burn straight at the opponent's head.

I went from rank 15 to rank 40 with this deck in a weekend and it has consistently the best record of any of the decks I have been playing around with since I hit 40. The deck has very favorable match ups against pretty much everything. Most of the deck's fatties can survive Languish (with the exception of the Incarnates). It tramples past chump blockers against Evolutionary Leap. It's easy to burn White/x and mono red aggro decks creatures down until they are forced to play off the tops of their libraries, and when that happens you are sure to draw better creatures than they are. Thopters can be difficult, but Chandra's Ignition is the MVP in that match up.

Anyway, nothing really "techy" or abnormal here, just a deck that straight-ahead smashes and burns its way to victory.

Nissa's Revel - Gruul evoless ramp/LD


This deck is meant for 2HG format. It's kinda too slow for 1v1, but still playable and fun if you value winning big over winning often.


It uses Nissa's Revelation for card draw. There are 12 big creatures and lots of land fetching to further increase creature density. It is also important to have large number of big threats, to overload opponent's spot removal capacity.

It doesn't run any artifacts or enchantments, to effectively make opponent's Art/Ench tech into dead cards.

It uses all 7 currently available Land Destruction cards (although you might want to swap 1-2 Into the Maw of Hell for cheaper removal in 1v1) to mess with opponent's manabase. Try to deny them a color early on. Later it might be better used to deal with threats like Foundries and Passages.

Spells (18 creatures, 18 instants/sorceries):

4 x Gatecreeper Vine
3 x Twin Bolt

1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Reclamation Sage
4 x Nissa's Pilgrimage

3 x Zendikar Incarnate
4 x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss

2 x Embermaw Hellion
2 x Outland Colossus
2 x Conclave Naturalists
2 x Chandra's Ignition

1 x Woodland Bellower
3 x Into the Maw of Hell

2 x Gaea's Revenge
2 x Nissa's Revelation

Lands (24):

7 x Mountain
10 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
1 x Rogue's Passage
4 x Gruul Guildgate


Curve: 0-7-6-7-8-4-4


Card choices:

Gatecreeper Vine - land fetching. We want to get to 7 mana ASAP.

Twin Bolt - Early game defence. You really want something you can play on turn 2, other than 4 Vines.

Reclamation Sage - One copy as a target for Woodland Bellower.

Zendikar Incarnate - Best target for Nissa's Revelation.

Embermaw Hellion - Big creature, survives Languish, Synergizes with red removal, especially Twin Bolt.

Conclave Naturalists - Artifact/enchantment destruction. A sizeable body for Nissa's Revelation.

Chandra's Ignition - Board sweeper and finisher.

Woodland Bellower - Big body for Nissa's revelation. Fetches Vines or a Sage.

Into the Maw of Hell - Creature removal and Land Destruction, two in one.

Nissa's Revelation - The ultimate card draw. We run 12 big creatures to maximize our chances. We have 14 land fetching cards (including Bellower) to increase our chances of hitting a creature. If you whiff, but have a flipped Nissa in play, you can still draw the card you put on top.


Other considerations:

Fiery Impulse - a reasonable substitute for Fire Bolt, and a possible turn 1 play. Later in the game we are almost guaranteed to hit Spell mastery. Synergizes with Hellions for up to 4 damage.

Fiery Conclusion - I don't run enough expendable creatures to justify this card. There is only 5 targets (4 Vines and a Sage).
Might try it as a one-of to see if I'm wrong, though. The main problem is that it's not a turn 2 play.

Ravaging Blaze - If you want to be really greedy and forfeit early defence. I have found it to be overkill. For creature removal we have Into the Maw of Hell, and damage to players is less important than board control.

Exquisite Firecraft - a reasonable substitute for Twin Bolt, since 3cmc slot is far from overcrouded, but we can sometimes miss double red on turn 3.

Wildsize - I think it's a win-more card in this deck. We have enough big dudes to not be afraid to trade with opponent's creatures. In 2HG our teammate can provide evason or help to remove blockers. The only situation where this card can be good, that I can think of, is when we are losing the damage race. But then I'd rather run early removal over this card, to prevent such situation.

Kird Chieftain - Generally a good creature with useful ability, but I think we run enough 4-drops. Also AFAIK it counts as a 3/3 for Nissa's Revelaton, which is too low.

Elvish Visionary - Doesn't do enough without Evo Leap. I'd rather play removal rather than 1/1 chump that draws into a random card.


Cards that didn't make the deck:

Evolutionary Leap - Countersynergy with Nissa's Revelation.

W6ire, I like your list, my only question is: why gatecreepers over visionary? 2 color decks usually don't have mana fix problems with the current lands and Visionary is a much better late game draw.

I have tested with Visionaries and I don't think that the difference is massive, but I have found that I prefer the Gatecreepers for a couple of reasons. Gatecreeper is a better speed bump/chump blocker, and without the Visonary there are no creatures in the deck that can be 2-for-1'ed with Twin Bolt. Actually, most players won't "waste" removal on a Gatecreeper, so in the late/mid game they are more apt to still be on the board to chump block than a Visionary.

Gatecreepers also allow you to keep a 2-land hand. Actually a 2-land hand can be the ideal hand (with one green source) if it also has a Gatecreeper and a Nissa's Pilgrimage. If you keep a 2-land hand with a Visionary, there is still no guarantee that the extra drawn card will be a land when you need it.

A perfect hand is something like:
TURN 1: Gruul Guildgate
TURN 2: Any land that doesn't come into play tapped > Gatecreeper Vine fetching a Mountain
TURN 3: Mountain > Nissa's Pilgrimage putting a Forest into play and a second Forest into your hand
TURN 4: Forest > Fattie
TURN 5 and following: see turn 4

You are right that there are late game situations where the Visionary would be preferable but the extra lands from the Gatecreepers still help fuel the Blazes and pump the Incarnates while allowing you to both continue to drop fatties onto the board while still having enough mana to activate the Kird Chieftan's ability.

It's really a matter of personal preference. The Gatecreeper ETB ability is better in the early game than the Visionary's IMO. The Visionary ability is better in the late game, but my goal is to use the first 3 turns to set up turns 4+ and to have the game won shortly after that. Visionaries are probably better in a version of the deck that plays Evol Leap and other ETB/LTB value creatures, but in this build I really want the Creepers.

Basically, with this deck you never want to miss a land drop before turn 6 or 7. Gatecreeper does a better job of assuring that then Visionary does. If you run Visionaries you may need to up the land count from 24 to 26ish for this reason.

Your mileage may vary.

My Gruul Ramp Monster Deck based on CovertGo Blues Version: (viewtopic.php?p=340556#p340556)

RG RampBlue [Origins]

4 x Fiery Impulse
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
4 x Elvish Visionary
4 x Twin Bolt
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
4 x Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 x Kird Chieftain
3 x Zendikar Incarnate
2 x Embermaw Hellion
2 x Outland Colossus
3 x Rhox Maulers
2 x Chandra's Ignition
8 x Mountain
9 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
1 x Rogue's Passage
4 x Gruul Guildgate

Dead Guy Gruul Renown

Creatures (24):

3 x Goblin Glory Chaser
4 x Goblin Arsonist

3 x Undercity Troll
3 x Subterranean Scout

3 x Valeron Wardens
3 x Akroan Sergeant
1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

3 x Firefiend Elemental
1 x Avaricious Dragon

Instants/Sorceries (14):

4 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Twin Bolt
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
4 x Wildsize

Lands (22):

11 x Mountain
5 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
4 x Gruul Guildgate

Here is a slower veriosn of Gruul Renown

Creatures (25):

3 x Goblin Glory Chaser
3 x Undercity Troll
4 x Subterranean Scout
3 x Valeron Wardens
2 x Akroan Sergeant
1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
1 x Firefiend Elemental
3 x Pharika's Disciple
2 x Kird Chieftain
2 x Outland Colossus
1 x Woodland Bellower

Instants/Sorceries (11):

4 x Fiery Impulse
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
3 x Wildsize
2 x Chandra's Ignition

Lands (24):

10 x Mountain
7 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
1 x Rogue's Passage
4 x Gruul Guildgate

remove juggernaut replace with 2 lands and some other spell

The 2 Evolutionary Leaps are the only sacrifice outlets? You probably need more than that to support all those Acts and Instincts. I'd try to work Fiery Conclusion in. Possibly in place of the two Vials.

Also, if you drop Alchemist's Vial and Juggernaut the artifact sub theme is lessened somewhat so the Scrapyard Mongrels should be replaced. Even with the vials and Juggs that isn't great card, especially if you want to be able to sac your myrs to EvoLeap.

after which point he probably shouldn't even be running the myrs, given how aggressive the rest of the deck is.

Shrug, we are basically telling him to run a different deck at this point, IMO.

OP: I think you may want to consider running Thopter Engineer somewhere in this build, keeping the juggernauts in, if you want to stay with the artifact sub theme. I'm not certain that you really need the green, but if you must run it then you may as well consider a couple other green cards in the deck. Not sure what they would be, but there are definitely some viable options.

Thank for the advices, i will test some change.

-1 Gruul Guildgate / +1 Mountain
-2 Alchemist's Vial / +2 Fiery Conclusion
-3 Juggernaut / +2Forest

-1 Gruul Guildgate / +1 Mountain
-2 Alchemist's Vial / +2Fiery Conclusion
-3 Juggernaut / +1Forest, +1 Molten Vortex
-2 Scrapyard Mongrel / +2 Rhox Maulers

-1 Gruul Guildgate / +1 Mountain
-2 Alchemist's Vial / +2 Thopter Engineer
-2 Scrapyard Mongrel / +2Forest

Awesome looking deck, I can't wait to try. Just curious, why no Elemental Bond if you aren't using Evo Leap?

My own take on Gruul Monsters. I took alot of inspiration from the deck quoted above and melded it with some insights from playing a mono-green fatty deck with Nissa's Revelation.

Monstercat Ver 2.2

Creatures 26
2x Abbot of Keral Keep
4x Gatecreeper Vine
3x Elvish Visionary
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Reclamation Sage
3x Kird Chieftain
2x Zendikar Incarnate
2x Embermaw Hellion
2x Outland Colossus
1x Conclave Naturalists
2x Rhox Maulers
1x Woodland Bellower
2x Gaea's Revenge

Non-creatures 10
1x Evolutionary Leap
1x Ravaging Blaze
4x Nissa's Pilgrimage
1x Wild Instincts
2x Chandra's Ignition
1x Nissa's Revelation

Lands 24
6x Mountain
9x Forest
2x Rootbound Crag
1x Rogue's Passage
4x Gruul Guildgate
2x Evolving Wilds

Honestly, though, I really do think Nissa's Revelation has alot of potential and can't wait to see what other decks I can fit it in. Maybe I'll try something in blue... with Alhammarret...

Because its a tempo loss. On turn 3 you want to be ramping. On turn 4 and following you want to be dropping monsters. Giving up a turn to play Elemental Bond hurts your tempo. Sure, it can gain you card advantage as the game goes on, but against decks where that matters (control) you don't really want to play a long game.

Yeah, I realized that later when I made my own build (above). Nissa's Revelation, I feel is a much better replenishing spell, as a 1-of, since it also grants you healing and stacks your deck, resulting in greater card quality as well as quantity..

Taking a stab at G/R Eldrazi ramp, really need suggestions on this one!

3 x Jaddi Offshoot
4 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
1 x Rolling Thunder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Titan's Presence
2 x Radiant Flames
4 x Nissa's Pilgrimage
2 x Blight Herder
2 x Chandra's Ignition
1 x Oblivion Sower
2 x Nissa's Renewal
4 x Ruin Processor
2 x Nissa's Revelation
1 x Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger


7 x Mountain
9 x Forest
2 x Cinder Glade
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Fertile Thicket
2 x Gruul Guildgate

coexist, you have 5 cards in your deck that exile things and 7 that need cards in the exile zone. see the problem here?

the ratio is actually 5 to 6, I had a bit of trouble finding other exile cards to fit into the list which is one of the reasons i wanted suggestions. Also most of the time it doesn't hurt to play a 7/8 that doesn't heal you or a 4/5 without the 1/1's