Hi Hakeem, assuming that I'm a intermediate player not particularly expert, now I'm 4W/3L with your B/U deck.

Some observations:
-every time my opponent has gained a clear battlefield advantage, I was not be able to recuperate the situation maybe because in ths deck there is only one powerful creature (Shadowborn Demon) and very few instants/sorceries to subvert unfavorable position

-in my last match, I've tried 2xRoatfester Maggot instead of 2xIndulgent Tormentor and it works very well.
With so many characters to choose in the graveyard, we can easily obtain a life bonus that can be relevant (for example +5 for Phantasmal Dragon). What dou you think about Roatfester Maggot in your deck? Have you tried it?

-I'm perplex about Cloudfin Raptor that in my games didn't perform well and it is useless with Dead Reckoning engine due to the 0 power. So I'm curious to try 3xHedron Crub/+1 Dead Reckoning instead of 4xCloudfin Raptor that has 0 power too but is very useful to fill very quickly the graveyard (Necromancer's Assistant alone would be not enough)

-at last, I like very much Dinrova Horror that was in your previous version but not in the actual, more aggressive one. I'm looking to find a slot for it.

However this deck is funny, I have to do some other matches to have a clear idea of the potentialities.

This deck is just a beatdown deck at the core, so you don't really have to worry about your opponent's board as much as he has to worry about yours. On that note, Rotfeaster Maggot isn't a beatdown card at all and doesn't really fit in with what the deck is trying to do.

Cloudfin Raptor, on the other hand, has been stellar for me. I just played a quick game with the deck and my first turn Raptor was Shocked, my second turn Strix was Shocked, but my third turn Brackwater, fourth turn Assistant, and fifth turn Indulgent Tormentor set me up nicely. On the sixth turn I played a freshly-drawn Raptor and used a Dead Reckoning on my Brackwater to kill a Guard Gomazoa. On my seventh turn I was able to cycle a Viscera Dragger and Unearth it plus another Dragger that hit the bin from my Assistant to evolve my T6 Raptor twice. Having a T6 Cloudfin Raptor be able to swing for two on the turn you untap with it is amazing because the card's value tends to drop sharply after the first turn but that's just not the case here. Had I not lost my first two creatures to removal, I would have killed very quickly in this game.

Here are some pictures of the final turn before and after the Unearth that powered up my Raptor and doubled my damage output (I initially have just eight power on the board but get to swing for sixteen). It's overkill but I wanted to demonstrate how the Raptor can be powered up even if you draw it late and also how much damage this deck can present to an opponent seemingly out of nowhere. Most players don't hold enough blockers back and just die once you start Unearthing stuff.

Very illuminating, thanks. I understand that I undervalued the Unearthly trait, that I've used with too much parsimony so I have to imrpove my skill.
But I had two bad defeat against white-green token decks, especially a spider-growth one that have literally destroyed me, being capable to absorb each extra attacks coming from viscera/blackwater in the graveyard and being able to block my raptor due to the reach trait.
What tactic do you use against token deck with your U/B built, where there is a huge number of blockers that hang over your attackers, deployed or potential? (for example I had very hard time againts the 3/3 lizard r/b/g that spawn 3 token when die)

Most decks are going to lose to a resolved Spider Spawning and this one is no different; just concede and move on if they resolve one too big for you to fight through.

Sprouting Thrinax can be tough but a lot of the creatures here can fly over the top of it and everything on the ground trades with it so it usually isn't too bad. I would never block it but I would always attack into it if it meant a trade (except maybe with Graveborn Muse). You just have to keep swinging at him relentlessly so that he's forced to use all those tokens on defense. The worst part of it is how much extra time he gets to find something like Pelakka Wurm or Mycoloth to beat you.

As far as GW tokens goes, you have to race them and it can be done. Just keep attacking.

Just remember when evaluating your opening hands that you're the beatdown; you have to mulligan a bit more aggressively to make sure you can start the assault as early as possible. This deck stymies opposing attacks by generating so much pressure on the opponent's life total that they're forced to hold back blockers.

You also have to be very aggressive in combat because, again, you're the beatdown.

That's the key to playing this deck properly; don't be afraid to mulligan slow hands, always attack, and use Unearth aggressively. Don't hold open mana for Vapor Snags because it's an offensive card in this deck; focus spending your mana on putting as much power as possible on to the board every turn and remember that Unearth is always an option if you want to maximize your mana efficiency. You should aim to spend all of your mana every turn.

Now go beatdown!

This is looking like a pretty fun beatdown variant. Gonna take it for a spin!

Hakeem, which dimir build of yours did you like better? Your aggro deathtouch or the beatdown? Which did you feel more consistent?

I gave both runs and the first won more than the later for me but I don't know if I gave the later proper play time. Gonna take it back out for some runs.

They were both pretty close, but I like the Unearth better just because I found it more fun. Neither is top-tier by any stretch, but I find beating face with above-curve dudes really fun, especially in these colors!

I've been fiddling with Dimir Unearth lately trying to improve it, and after some minimal testing have arrived here:





I ended up cutting Dead Reckoning and Necromancer's Assistant because the whole package was just too slow. Without the minor graveyard focus, Shadowborn Demon got cut as well. In those slots I added seven more fliers (4x Pestermite and 3x Niblis of the Breath) so I then cut the two Graveborn Muses and slotted in three copies of Military Intelligence as my draw engine of choice. The Niblis can either act as cheap "removal" or attack as needed and it works well with the other change I made to the deck; cutting the Phantasmal Dragons for Galvanic Juggernauts. Phantasmal Dragon was certainly very powerful when he stuck and I was able to get good value through Dead Reckoning when he didn't, but with Reckoning gone he was more of a liability. Juggernaut is still a four-mana 5/5 but is much more resilient and we can occasonally untap it with the Niblis or Pestermite.

Let me know your thoughts.

I still personally think that the Izzet version is somewhat more consistent since it goes deeper on the same strategy (pushing damage early and triggering Evolve a ton). Hellspark Elemental is just too good with Cloudfin Raptor. Along with Brackwater Elemental you can do a pretty good chunk of damage while consistently Evolving Raptor. Going T1 Raptor> T2 Hellspark, trigger Evolve, attack for 4 >T3 Brackwater, trigger Evolve, attack for 2> T4 Unearth Hellspark, trigger Evolve, attack for 10 > T5 Unearth Brackwater, trigger Evolve, attack for 8.

That is a potential kill on T5 using a total of only 3 cards >.>

Anyways, back on topic.

I can see your list now more closely resembles the Izzet build I threw together. We talked about Niblis of the Breath there, and I think you see what I was trying to get at before there. The majority of the time they function perfectly fine as just another 2/X flyer to beat in, with the additional upside of sometimes tapping down important threats or tapping down blockers to get attacks through. The added interaction with Galvanic Juggernaut is just added value.

On the topic of Galvanic Juggernaut, how has this been working out for you? I think the idea overall is genius, and one I may very well mirror in my Izzet version of the deck. I was using Phantasmal Dragon before for the same reasons you were (4 mana 5/5 triggers Evolve pretty well) but may make the swap if it proves successful for you. Juggernaut works just as well for triggering Evolve and is a heck of a lot more durable. The only concern I would have is that Juggernaut doesn't have any sort of evasion (which the Dragon does).

At this point the only thing in the deck that really sticks out to me is the singleton Bident of Thassa which seems like it could be pretty clunky.

Have you considered Quickling here? We talked about it when we discussed my Izzet version. It has worked pretty well for me in my shell, and yours isn't too far off from mine.

It is another 2/X flyer to add to your mass of evasion threats.

Dropping a Quickling on your opponents EoT on T3 to bounce a Tidehollow Strix that attacked on your T3 doesn't seem like a terrible tempo loss.

Bouncing Pestermites to reuse their EtB can be useful.

They also work pretty well with Brackwater Elemental. Since they don't sacrifice until EoT after they attack or block.

This allows you to use Brackwater Elementals a bit more leniently. It allows you to do stuff like T3 Brackwater> T4 attack for 4, bounce Brackwater leaving behind a 2/2 flyer and 2 mana open and giving you another activation out of Brackwater.

It also allows you to be tricky with blocks as well. I have noticed that people generally aren't afraid of throwing attackers into an untapped Brackwater Elemental unless there is a serious loss to be had. People aren't likely to attack into an untapped Brackwater with Goblin Rabblemaster or whatever, since that represents a significant loss if blocked. On the other hand, most people aren't afraid of sending their random 1/1 and 2/2 creatures and the like right into an untapped Brackwater because you blocking with it is actually favorable to them (since blocking means trading your 4/4 for their random 1/1 or 2/2 or whatever). Quickling allows you to make some blocks like this that people just do not expect because they would normally be unfavorable for you, but with Quickling doing so can actually represent CA.

They also add the usual tricky blocks they normally do, allowing you to flash it in and return a tapped creature you attacked with the previous turn to get a surprise 2/2 blocker. Or flashing it in after declaring blockers to both prevent yourself from taking damage and save your creature.

They also work well as anti-removal. As I talked about before in my Izzet version, bouncing Cloudfin Raptor isn't preferable because the game plan is to get them out early and Evolve them as quick as possible to make them serious threats.

When the alternative is Raptor being sent to the GY, Exiled, Arrested, or Stolen though the trade-off is still often in your favor though.

It should be noted as well that when used as removal protection Quickling actually represents CA as well (unlike Gods Willing which is CA neutral), albeit at a bit of a tempo loss.

My suggestion would be:

-1 Bident
-1 Niblis

+2 Quickling

I actually don't hate the idea of Quickling bouncing a Pestermite or Brackwater, but it just has so much potential to be a dead draw that I'm not quite sold. If I were to add a pair, though, I think I'd cut a land and a Tormentor. Bident is just too good with all the flying here, I'd never cut it. I will test Quickling, though.

Juggernaut has been good, he's obviously not as bonkers as Dragon but he doesn't die to a cool breeze and this deck can untap him multiple ways at instant speed.

I think you're right that the Izzet version is "better" but I have two Izzet decks already so I kinda just want to stay in Dimir because reasons.

Thanks for the analysis.

Ah reasons! Good enough for me. Haha.

Anyways, Quicklings are dead less often than you may expect. I don't often look at them as an aggressive creature to play early in this deck. The card functions more like a 2 mana Summoner's Bane that hits removal spells instead of creatures. With the added bonus of sometimes getting extra activations out of Pestermite and Unearth creatures.

Since you run Tidehollow Strix you are a little more apt than I am to use it as an aggressive play though.

Beyond this, the deck always has the option to play them in a pinch with the Unearth creatures at a loss of value (in exchange for a bump in tempo). Bouncing an Unearthed Brackwater Elemental may not seem like a good play (since the creature goes into Exile because of Unearth and you basically waste the bounce effect). If you really need that 2/2 flyer out right then, sacrificing the bounce effect for the tempo bump could potentially be worth it though.

Hohoho! This is so much fun! This is a brilliant testament to the spirit of Dimir.. Cold, deceptive and CRUEL. It's like using aggro as control. Just brilliant fun.

So this deck is actually pretty solid but Galvanic Juggernaut has just never mattered and I rarely want to cast him. When I win it's on the back of a ton of evasion and card draw backed up by Unearth and disruption from the Pestermites and Vapor Snags. I have been annoyed by removal, though, so I'm going to take eon's advice about the Quicklings and then add a second Bident because it's just nuts here.

-3 Galvanic Juggernaut
+2 Quickling
+1 Bident of Thassa

More testing to come.....

So I took out Quickling for a spin and it was decent at times and downright horrid at others. Along the way I realize that my entire deck just folds to Goblin Rabblemaster so I need to put in hard removal. I don't want to add another color and I need it to be cheap so I can advance my board and may for Unearth, so Ulcerate is the only real option.

Referencing the original list in the post above, I'm trying

-3 Galvanic Juggernaut
-1 Swamp
+3 Ulcerate
+1 Bident of Thassa

Wanted to try and build a classic Dimir discard deck. Here's what I've come up with:



I realize this is kind of a "forced theme", but I really love decks that have a coherent theme and flavour. And it's actually quite functional! Basically start to slowly empty your opponents mind, I mean hand. Bounce back his stuff, and then force him to discard it. You just gotta take it nice and slow, be prepared to take quite a beating before you can get your Dinrovas rolling. All the creatures have ETB effects aswell, which goes nice with Undying Evil, and of course Vapor Snag, though it's usually more appropriate to use it offensively. As you go about bouncing most of his creatures, I found Tribute to Hunger to be the most effective (and of course: most cruel) choice for removal. Not vs. tokens obviously, but this deck is just obliterated by tokens anyway. Unless you're extremely lucky and can discard his hand before he can triplicate and that nonsense. And all sort of graveyard decks obviously also soft-counter this deck, atleast unless you can get a large Suffer the Past off.
But overall, it's surprisingly consistent, albeit somewhat clunky, and is quite fun to play!

Wish we had some appropriate 2-drops available. Black Cat, I miss you!

Suggestions for improvement is of course very welcome! As long as you stick to the theme. This is meant to be a "flavour" deck, in the spirit of cruel Dimir mind-fcuk.
(Seriously, what's with the "mature language" filter? Are we really that sensitive? I can't even write mind-f u c k lol)

Edit:
Dropped one Suffer the Past for a singleton Monomania, incase I meet some kind of Bident-deck or similar and want to tutor it.

I don't know if anyone remembers this deck, but it was pretty good. I think Brain Maggot and potentially Tidehollow Strix could really fit into this strategy somewhere, perhaps making it more discard-focused with a Talrand wincon. I'm going to work on something like this tonight.

Undying Evil plus Brain Maggot seems pretty amusing.

I'm going to start testing this right now.....



Thoughts?

I've made a bunch of Dimir decks, and I've come to the conclusion that Rager just sucks. It's falls under 'that card I cast hoping to get something better, so it should just be something better in the first place' like Wall of Omens. If you want draw, just rock Bident of Thasa and/or Graveborn Muse. Strix and Thasa are a match made in heaven.. if you can work them in there.

Edit: if you want to keep the curve more intact..
-4 Rager
+2 Bident or Muse
+2 Agent of Fates

Agent could be good in that deck.

I'm 7-0 and Rager has been an all-star, sorry beast. With all the discard and bounce going on he swings in and gets a lot of chip damage, then when I trade with him I upgrade him to a 3/3 and get another card. It really keeps the deck hitting its drops.

Sheoldred is insane, you just keep them on the back foot with bounce and discard then blammo, they start sacrificing dudes and you recur all your EtB creatures. Rune-Scarred fetches him almost always.

Sheoldred is an absolute monster every time I've played her.. for sure. Rager never did anything for me, even with Undying Evil. It was just a chump.. I preferred using my Undying Evils on the Spectres, then racing with evasive 3/2s.