idk isn't treasured find strictly better then warden?

also just a random thing that popped into my hand what happens if you seance laboratory maniac on the turn that would end the game?

from what I remember the upkeep step is before the draw step and in duels 2015 no one can pause during the beginning phase (iirc) so do you just win because you can't draw and a token of laboratory maniac is in play?

Yes you win, that is why you can get away with 1 maniac.

I am not sure if they can respond with removal. You obviously could in real magic but this is duels after all.

Can someone test this?

Edit - your right about warden. I just wanted to find a home for it as I feel the latest dlc was a bit disappointing.

welp time to give the ai a deck of lands and test this, oh wait the ai would have to have some removal but how do I make sure it saves some for the LM D: do I need to talk to another person to test this? D:

What platform are you on? I can test later but I'm on 360

I'm going to focus on the Laboratory Maniac as the primary wincon and not do the whole Spider thing. This is the evolution of my toolbox combo since I think this will be a decently reliable wincon:



So we all know Doubling Season plus Seance is good for EtB abuse, so I'm going for that. Doubly good is the fact that it will create two Lab Maniacs on your final upkeep so your opponent has to deal with both of them. In the event you don't have a Season in play, I have one copy of Think Twice because if the goal is to see the entire deck every game then it will always show up. DON'T USE IT FROM THE GRAVEYARD. Well, okay, you can use it but only if you need to not die immediately or if your opponent is playing no instant-speed removal to deal with the Maniac.

The reason I'm not Spawning is simply because I've done that enough in D15. Bad reason but there you go.

And I'm aware the entire deck just folds to Suffer the Past. Whatcha gonna do?

Played my first game against a friend using Izzet Burn and managed to win a nail-biter. I had Seance/Doubling Season set up while I was chump-blocking with all my dudes then started exiling Rune-Scarred Demons for maximum tutorage. I was drawing so many cards that near the end I almost always had to discard to hand size, which was excellent. I want Laboratory Maniac in the graveyard because hardcasting him is a real weakness of the deck.

Anyway with my last two Rune-Scarred Tutors I grabbed double-Crab and played them both, played a land, played a Wayfinder to empty my library on on my opponent's turn I Seanced the Maniac (creating two copies, which is good insurance) and flashed back my Think Twice to grab the win.

Fast mill and lots of fun. I wonder if I could squeeze red in here for Burning Enquiry? Just kidding, of course!

What friend let you win with that pile? He should be ashamed. I'm totally going to play Suffer the Past against you.. just to see how you respond

I play on steam so yeah no dice monk

Okay so we played three games and I took them all down. The deck is fast and fun, but obviously we're relying on a single wincon and we need to be able to get it into play through Seance so it will just die to the right disruption cards. I faced down an Angelic Edict on my Seance in the third game, which was troubling because I couldn't get it back through Treasured Find, but luckily I had the second copy and was able to power out a win before another Edict ruined my chances. Without Seance, we have to hardcast the single Lab Maniac to win and I NEVER want to hardcast that thing.

This obviously isn't meant to be the optimal deck, but I think it's a ton of fun to run a deck like this where you only have one way to win the game. The whole "can I get there?" throughtout the whole game is exhilarating.

Doubling Season is a bit win-more, though, and only good with Seance so I may just play some Masked Admirers in those slots. Any other suggestions for the Doubling Season slots? I may even play a single Spawning just as a defensive line, but I wouldn't play more than that. Two copies of Traumatic Visions is a thought as well, because four colors and it is some protection in the lategame. The deck tends to tap out, though, so I'm not sure this is the way to go. Hedron Crab has also been pretty important for the deck's speed, so I may even play a pair of Gravediggers to go get them back.

I really think Spawning is the right way to go with this deck. I know why you aren't doing that, but for everyone else, I'm pretty sure the right build is just adding a new win con to a spider spawning deck.

Looks good Hakeem. I do like having 2 think twice though as you will have 6 mana for when you seance lab maniac. That way you play around multiple removal spells.

Maybe doubling season solves that though?

I am going to do some more testing. I think the last slot in my list (where I currently have Sheoldred) should be

Sheoldred
Archaeomancer
Doubling season
Resolute archangel

I am leaning towards archaeomancer as getting back cleansing is important but also getting treasure find to get seance seems good too. Thoughts?

The deck absolutely needs an Archaeomancer to grab Treasured Finds.

Totally agree but it's a bit blasé at this point for me.

I'm just pointing it out, so that people know you are building a suboptimal build on purpose, in other words for fun.

Also I will note that in the three games I won, I exiled my Lab Maniac to Seance on my own turn with an empty library and it went straight to the victory screen. I didn't see it come into play so I think the only card your opponent can use to stop it at that point is Suffer the Past. Shock won't do.

can I get 3 cheers for duel's bad programming

Damn, it has been a loong time since I played paper magic (like 16 years) but I remember the phases were untap, draw, upkeep, main1, battle, main2, end step. So what you are saying is that because Stainless was lazy about rule implementation the Maniac combo is significantly better. Or is my aged memory faulty?

I never even tried that, I always made sure that I seanced maniac, milled the last few cards from my library, and then drew.

The double think twice package was an out against decks that ran instant speed removal, but if you just win when you seance maniac with 0 cards in library, it doesn't seem as necessary. It feels borderline exploitish to do that... then again, it isn't really a bug, it is how the rules were "implemented."

Monk I didn't even notice you weren't running Archaeomancer, I would run at least run 1 before Sheoldred or Resolute. Heck run 2. Resolute is probably better for a turbo-self mill deck like Hakeem's or mine than your more balanced spider maniac deck.

It's Untap/Upkeep/Draw.

In Duels, there is only an upkeep if something triggers there (like Seance). Once the trigger resolves it goes right to the draw step without passing priority to the other guy. He needs to deal with the Maniac before the Seance trigger resolves.

So was your friend able to respond with instant speed removal?

Your friend was playing an Izzet deck so I think by the third game he would know what is going on. I would be shocked if he didn't run, well, Shock.

Actually I think duels doesn't allow priority at the end of phases. Usually when someone casts a Rabblemaster, even if I have a shock in hand I can't kill it before the "beginning of the combat step," unless Rabblemaster triggers something by entering the battlefield (Blasting Station). So I could be wrong about paper rules but if this works it is because Stainless borked the rules in TWO ways - the steps are in the wrong order and you cannot announce an action at the end of someone's upkeep.