No Goblins Allowed :: Set Structure and Future Criteria

LilyStorm wrote:

A plane that no longer moves. One side is completely frozen and the other is a hellish wasteland where the sun never sets.

TPzombieW wrote:

Card Type Matters (not subtype, I'm talking the stuff Tarmogoyf cares about)

Mown wrote:

You will probably have to ram some set structure into everyone's mindset in the near future though.

We are currently 1/6 of the way through making the set. I think that so far we're doing excellently, with most of the mishaps along the way being managerial errors on my behalf rather than design or voting mistakes by you guys. This is the thread to tie Mechanics and Flavor together, to make sure we continue doing excellently going forward.

First, I want everyone to read Nuts & Bolts: Design Skeleton, one of MaRo's greatest articles. He explains how sets are given bones before they're given sinew and skin. Read this if you need a refresher on what exactly Set Structure is as a concept, why it's important, and what we can do about it.

While the criteria system is working out really well so far, I'd like us to start thinking about the set in a broader scheme, and ask ourselves: Where do the cards that have gotten in so far indicate that we're going?

So, post in this thread if you have any idea for a slot on the Set Map (i.e. a criterion), or think it would be cool to make a cycle out of a card already in the set, such as Seal of Churned Earth or Lightbearer, because I plan to have bonus rounds for cycles in the future. People can use this as inspiration for their own criteria, and in general talk about where we're going from here.

Author:	ParadOxymoron [ Fri May 30, 2014 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Set Structure and Future Criteria
LilyStorm wrote: A plane that no longer moves. One side is completely frozen and the other is a hellish wasteland where the sun never sets. TPzombieW wrote: Card Type Matters (not subtype, I'm talking the stuff Tarmogoyf cares about) Mown wrote: You will probably have to ram some set structure into everyone's mindset in the near future though. We are currently 1/6 of the way through making the set. I think that so far we're doing excellently, with most of the mishaps along the way being managerial errors on my behalf rather than design or voting mistakes by you guys. This is the thread to tie Mechanics and Flavor together, to make sure we continue doing excellently going forward. First, I want everyone to read Nuts & Bolts: Design Skeleton, one of MaRo's greatest articles. He explains how sets are given bones before they're given sinew and skin. Read this if you need a refresher on what exactly Set Structure is as a concept, why it's important, and what we can do about it. While the criteria system is working out really well so far, I'd like us to start thinking about the set in a broader scheme, and ask ourselves: Where do the cards that have gotten in so far indicate that we're going? So, post in this thread if you have any idea for a slot on the Set Map (i.e. a criterion), or think it would be cool to make a cycle out of a card already in the set, such as Seal of Churned Earth or Lightbearer, because I plan to have bonus rounds for cycles in the future. People can use this as inspiration for their own criteria, and in general talk about where we're going from here. Set Map 88/245 Cards 45/108 Commons 25/64 Uncommons 13/57 Rares 5/16 Mythics 39 Cards of each color 28 Colorless 10 Multicolor 12 Lands 16/39 White Cards White Commons 1 – Consortium Customs 2 – Encapsulate 3 – Indomitable Will 4 – Lightbearer 5 – Seal of Gleaming Sun 6 – Shackles of Order 7 – Springhaven Hospitaler 8 – Sunchaser Elder 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 White Uncommons 1 – Ethereal Armor 2 – Solar Flare 3 – Soulsteel Saint 4 – Sun Spirit 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 White Rares 1 – Apostle of Elori 2 – Radiant Messenger 3 – Voice of Unity 4 5 6 7 White Mythics 1 – Reification of Elori 2 3 15/39 Blue Cards Blue Commons 1 – Dehydration 2 – Seal of Frigid Winds 3 – Snowblind Haint 4 – Solidify 5 – Subterranean Scrawlings 6 – Turn Back 7 – Written in Steel 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Blue Uncommons 1 – Frostblight Foresight 2 – Frostblight Scavenger 3 – Qualified Research 4 – Spellbound Serpent 5 – Steam Cloak 6 – Wall of Clouds 7 8 9 10 11 Blue Rares 1 – Delve into the Unknown 2 3 4 5 6 7 Blue Mythics 1 – Glacinorak, the Frozen Heart 2 3 15/39 Black Cards Black Commons 1 – Cheapshot Enthusiast 2 – Cremate 3 – Instruments of Torture 4 – Mindshivers 5 – Rattleskull Viashino 6 – Seal of Churned Earth 7 – Shamebearer 8 – Wraith's Whisper 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Black Uncommons 1 – Brains and Bodies 2 – Deathly Chill 3 – Icy Whisper 4 – Scavenged Plans 5 – Student of Finality 6 7 8 9 10 11 Black Rares 1 – Eater of Dreams 2 3 4 5 6 7 Black Mythics 1 – Death World 2 3 14/39 Red Cards Red Commons 1 – Crystalline Lasher 2 – Ignite the Ashes 3 – Insult to Injury 4 – Knifetail Waylay 5 – Living Bonfire 6 – Seal of Shattered Steel 7 – Viashino Sandscout 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Red Uncommons 1 – Magespark Elemental 2 – Rabid Fireweasel 3 – Tinderbranch 4 – Viashino Surprise Attack 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Red Rares 1 – Gleam Collector 2 – Sandquake 3 – Sparksigil Apprentice 4 5 6 7 Red Mythics 1 2 3 14/39 Green Cards Green Commons 1 – Borderland Ranger 2 – Grove Tender 3 – Loamblood Druid 4 – Lurking Frostjaw 5 – Oathbreaker 6 – Relic Crusher 7 – Resurgence of Strength 8 – Seal of Flourishing Blossoms 9 – Shivering Soil 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Green Uncommons 1 – Track to the Lair 2 – Wanderlust Wendigo 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Green Rares 1 – Consult the Elder Trees 2 – Restoration Spirit 3 4 5 6 7 Green Mythics 1 – Tarmogoyf 2 3 13/28 Colorless Cards Colorless Commons 1 – Antique Guardian 2 – Desert Totem 3 – Druid's Heirloom 4 – Prismatic Wanderer 5 – Tank Golem 6 – Wandering Collective 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Colorless Uncommons 1 – Archmage's Staff 2 – Coldmetal Coat 3 – Icecore Golem 4 5 6 7 Colorless Rares 1 – Cloud Key 2 – Cutthroat Automaton 3 – Scavenger's Sack 4 5 6 7 Colorless Mythic 1 – Mox Amber 10 Multicolor Cards Multicolor Rares 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1/12 Lands Land Commons 1 2 3 4 5 Land Uncommons 1 – Quiet Factory 2 Land Rares 1 2 3 4 5

Author:	ParadOxymoron [ Fri May 30, 2014 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Set Structure and Future Criteria
I think we should use the Future Sight card type symbols as watermarks in this set. As an exercise for myself, I gave each card in the set so far a watermark. Watermark Examples Apostle of Elori: Enchantment Encapsulate: Artifact Lightbearer: Enchantment Shackles of Order: Enchantment Sun Spirit: Enchantment Sunchaser Elder: Creature Voice of Unity: Creature Frostblight Foresight: Artifact Frostblight Scavenger: Artifact Glacinorak, the Frozen Heart: None Qualified Research: None Spellbound Serpent: Sorcery Turn Back: None Wall of Clouds: None Cheapshot Enthusiast: Instant Icy Whisper: Instant Mindshivers: None Rattleskull Viashino: Creature Scavenged Plans: None Seal of Churned Earth: Creature Wraith's Whisper: None Crystalline Lasher: None Gleam Collector: Sorcery Ignite the Ashes: Instant Rabid Fireweasel: None Sparksigil Apprentice: Sorcery Viashino Sandscout: None Borderland Ranger: Land Consult the Elder Trees: Multiple Lurking Frostjaw: Creature Restoration Spirit: None Resurgence of Strength: Creature Tarmogoyf: Multiple Track to the Lair: Land Coldmetal Coat: Artifact Cutthroat Automaton: None Druid's Keepsake: Land Mox Amber: Multiple Prismatic Wanderer: None Scavenger's Sack: Artifact Quiet Factory: Artifact At the very least, we should decide on how much and at what rarities and in which colors we want each watermark in the set. In other words, we should decide which colors care about which card types, and how much, and how many cards that care about that type it would require to establish that.

Author:	Kithkin_FieldMarshal [ Sat May 31, 2014 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Set Structure and Future Criteria
ParadOxymoron wrote: LilyStorm wrote: A plane that no longer moves. One side is completely frozen and the other is a hellish wasteland where the sun never sets. TPzombieW wrote: Card Type Matters (not subtype, I'm talking the stuff Tarmogoyf cares about) Mown wrote: You will probably have to ram some set structure into everyone's mindset in the near future though. We are currently 1/6 of the way through making the set. I think that so far we're doing excellently, with most of the mishaps along the way being managerial errors on my behalf rather than design or voting mistakes by you guys. This is the thread to tie Mechanics and Flavor together, to make sure we continue doing excellently going forward. First, I want everyone to read Nuts & Bolts: Design Skeleton, one of MaRo's greatest articles. He explains how sets are given bones before they're given sinew and skin. Read this if you need a refresher on what exactly Set Structure is as a concept, why it's important, and what we can do about it. While the criteria system is working out really well so far, I'd like us to start thinking about the set in a broader scheme, and ask ourselves: Where do the cards that have gotten in so far indicate that we're going? So, post in this thread if you have any idea for a slot on the Set Map (i.e. a criterion), or think it would be cool to make a cycle out of a card already in the set, such as Seal of Churned Earth or Lightbearer, because I plan to have bonus rounds for cycles in the future. People can use this as inspiration for their own criteria, and in general talk about where we're going from here. I really think we need to do the same as the below example for the entire set. CW01 – creature, small CW02 – creature, small, flying, gravetwist CW03 – creature, small, first strike CW04 – creature, small, flash, ETB – life gain CW05 – creature, medium, vigilance CW06 – creature, medium, flying CW07 – sorcery – token making, flying CW08 – instant, power boost CW09 – instant, enchantment removal CW10 – enchantment, creature removal CU01 – creature, small, flying, CU02 – creature, small, shroud CU03 – creature, medium, flying CU04 – creature, large CU05 – instant, hard counterspell, gravetwist CU06 – instant, soft counterspell CU07 – instant, "bounce" CU08 – sorcery, card drawing CU09 – sorcery CU10 – enchantment, aura, creature removal CB01 – creature, small CB02 – creature, small, flying CB03 – creature, small, deathtouch, gravetwist CB04 – creature, medium, intimidate CB05 – creature, medium, ETB – raise dead CB06 – creature, medium CB07 – instant, creature kill, gravetwist CB08 – sorcery, discard CB09 – sorcery, drain creature CB10 – enchantment, aura, positive effect, gravetwist CR01 – creature, small – ETB direct damage to player CR02 – creature, small, first strike CR03 – creature, small CR04 – creature, medium, haste CR05 – creature, medium, trample CR06 – instant – direct damage to creatures CR07 – instant – direct damage to either CR08 – instant – power pump CR09 – sorcery – panic, gravetwist CR10 – enchantment, aura, positive effect CG01 – creature, small, gravetiwst, ETB – artifact/enchantment removal CG02 – creature, small, regeneration CG03 – creature, small, deathtouch CG04 – creature, medium, reach, gravetwist CG05 – creature, medium CG06 – creature, medium CG07 – creature, large, trample CG08 – instant, power/toughness boost CG09 – sorcery, life gain CG10 – enchantment, aura, positive effect CA01 – creature, medium CA02 – sac effect, mana related CA03 – tap ability, mana related CA04 – equipment, power/toughness pumping CA05 – equipment, evasion CL01 – produces W CL02 – produces U CL03 – produces B CL04 – produces R CL05 – produces G

Author:	ParadOxymoron [ Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Set Structure and Future Criteria
Basically, what I take from that is that Black needs more creatures and Red and Green need more spells, especially Red. Nothing else jumped out at me.

Author:	TPzombieW [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Set Structure and Future Criteria
Oh thank you! I was thinking of maybe putting everything so far into an MSE file and examining the statistics page, but this lets me skip right to the bit where I get to enjoy the results!

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