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[Mentalis] Mechanics Development http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=3915 |
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Author: | IceMetalPunk [ Fri May 30, 2014 3:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
Clockwise from left: Astral by James "If-not-for-Gravity" Henderson, Mesmeric by Jennie "sweetcivic" Yuen, Flameheart by Jessica "ArtLair" Feinberg, Shepherd by Anthony "Ubermonster" Francisco, and Foundry by Sarah "sarahfinnigan" Finnigan Story & Flavor Development Thread | Card Showcase Thread As you can see from the Mentalis Flavor Development topic, I've got a set/block in the works, and right now it's open for development by anyone! I started with a post over at MTGSalvation, but two communities are better than one, right? This is the mechanics thread. I'll be posting updates to the flavor and story as it develops, to help inform the mechanics, but this thread is dedicated solely to coming up with creative and workable mechanics for the different factions within Mentalis. So here's the story/flavor we have so far. The plane is Mentalis, and it is filled with creatures who have all focused their mana on a particular area of specifically psychic ability. Each color represents a different faction which has honed a different psychic skill. They are listed below. Faction Descriptions
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So, given those descriptions, and the description of the plane...time to make some mechanical magic! I'll list the mechanics I had for each, though most have been shot down either for being OP, UP, boring, or unflavorful... but maybe they're good starting points for further improvement . Current Mechanic Concepts, or What Not To Do (So Say Other Critics)
Spoiler
So...anyone up for some mono-colored, psychic-themed mechanical development? |
Author: | IceMetalPunk [ Fri May 30, 2014 4:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
Recently, the idea has come about for a new creature type to be included, currently called the Luminals. These are being made partly or entirely of pure light, crafted by the Astrals to battle for them. The Luminals all have the ability to "explode" and release all their light at once, blinding their enemies, at the cost of fading out of existence when the light has been expended. They also all have vigilance because light doesn't get tired. So to that end, mechanically, all Luminal creatures would have vigilance and an ability of the form "[COST]: This creature can't be blocked until end of turn [possible other buffs]. Exile it at end of turn." It's not a keyword, so it doesn't have a name, but I'm just calling it the Luminal ability or the Burst ability. Some examples: Luminal Generation Sorcery (C) Put three 1/1 white Luminal creature tokens onto the battlefield. They have vigilance and “ : This creature can’t be blocked until end of turn. Exile it at end of turn.” When one Luminal burns out, another takes its place. Luminal Mender Creature — Luminal (U) Vigilance Whenever Luminal Mender deals combat damage to a player, you gain that much life. : Luminal Mender gets +2/+2 and can’t be blocked until end of turn. Exile it at end of turn. 2/2 Timid Luminal Creature — Luminal (U) Vigilance : Timid Luminal gets +X/+X and can’t be blocked until end of turn. Exile it at end of turn. Some Luminals refuse to concede to their instilled aggression until they deem it necessary. 1/3 We're also considering some origin stories of different creature types for the other factions, one or two for each. Maybe it will inspire some mechanical designs? I've been trying to figure out how the Djinns might work, if anyone has ideas? Whence Come the Myriad Creatures?
Spoiler
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Author: | storyteller [ Fri May 30, 2014 4:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
- A variant of Soulshift that triggers on ETB instead, maybe? - This screams Fateseal to me. - could see affinity to creatures/land here. Maybe Soulbond, or a variant thereof. - Personally feel like somehow these guys should have a little more depth. After all, they can produce something that supposedly only the Astrals are supposed to have control over. On luminals: Three 1/1 vigilants for is most probably OP. Unblockable feels a bit weird in white. I would expect controlling blocker choices or tapping instead. |
Author: | IceMetalPunk [ Fri May 30, 2014 4:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
I originally had the blue faction (before they even had a name) focused on clairvoyance, and so scry/fateseal and similar crossed my mind. But I just don't know how that fits the idea of creating illusions and hallucinations. Care to explain how that fits the flavor a bit more? Hmm...a Soulbond variant for the Shepherds would be perfect. So now here's the question: do we just go right for actual Soulbond, or is there a way to make a version that's more "everyone is connected, not just us two" without it getting OP or boring? And yeah, the Flamehearts are the least developed faction, story-wise. If you want to help develop them, the Story Development thread is now up (I'll link it in the first post as soon as I've posted this). But as a quick mention, I was under the impression they don't create light. They can create the heat to ignite a flame, but the flames don't produce their own light. They produce heat and brighten the light around them, but without the Astrals' light source in the first place, they'd be dark (but still hot) flames. Magic! My original mechanic for the Astrals did, in fact, tap things down. But then I was told that would be too boring and powerful (because you'd just keep their biggest baddie tapped down), so I changed tactics. Maybe you can think of a good way to incorporate tapping down as a keyword in a better way? My original Foundry mechanic was also recursion, which I was told was OP as well...they said it would "just keep bringing the biggest thing smaller than the creature back". However...I'm wondering if an actual Soulshift mechanic (only without the Spirit type restriction) would be okay, because it triggers on death, so you can't just "play creature, recurse best dead thing" unless you have some way of killing it? What do you think? And also, if I were to keep the cost for the Luminal Generation, would it be more fair for two tokens, or just one? |
Author: | storyteller [ Fri May 30, 2014 4:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
- wasn't thinking about illusions or hallucinations. Was more going down the mind control lane for that one. Meh. - Banding says hi? - I don't buy that story, but if that's how it is, I guess that's how it is. - I think a soulshift variant would be fine. It could even be etb, maybe. [mechanic name][cmc] (When this card etb, exile target creature with cmc less than [cmc] in your graveyard. You may cast that card while ~ is on the field) etc. - 2 tokens is probably ok. No mechanic comes to mind off top of my head. |
Author: | IceMetalPunk [ Fri May 30, 2014 5:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
Ooh, I like your version of the soulshift mechanic! It's also a do-or-die situation, because if you don't cast it and your creature dies, you lose it forever. Which is very bad in black especially. A name for that... Soulrip? Ghostrip? Or, if we're sticking with the Darkveil story, Veilrip? I don't know why, but I think "rip" fits here, as it's ripping them from the Darkveil and back into the world... As for banding...no. Just...no. My friend plays an all-banding EDH deck, and let me tell you, there is a VERY good reason that banding is an 11/10 on MaRo's "Never coming back" storm scale. But maybe something like it, with less complicated game warping. Some fusion of Soulbond that also somehow affects other things? Somehow... ideas? As for the Flamehearts, like I said, their story is the least developed, and that was just what I came up with. To be honest, until you mentioned it, I never really noticed that they'd be making light with their fire... so again, head over to the Story Development topic and help us fix this loophole, please . *EDIT* Oh! And also! You'll notice in the flavor of the creature origins that the Djinn of Mentalis are really super-powerful Mesmerics who use their illusion abilities to grant wishes, which disappear when you return the favor by doing what they want. My idea for them mechanically was something like this: "When Some Djinn enters the battlefield, you may exile the top three cards of your library face up. Whenever [TRIGGER], you may put a card exiled with Some Djinn into your hand." So basically, as you fulfill your favors, your wishes get granted, but once you've completed them all (triggered it 3 times), he stops granting wished and becomes a virtual vanilla body. Thoughts on this? |
Author: | storyteller [ Fri May 30, 2014 6:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
New idea seems to cause memory problems when you got multiple djinns out. Banding seemed fitting, and it seemed nice how you can give bonuses to all cards in bands. Nothing else atm. |
Author: | IceMetalPunk [ Fri May 30, 2014 7:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
storyteller wrote: New idea seems to cause memory problems when you got multiple djinns out. Banding seemed fitting, and it seemed nice how you can give bonuses to all cards in bands. Nothing else atm. No memory problems if you just exile the cards underneath the Djinn that gave them to you. And if the Djinn dies, all cards exiled under him just go to exile permanently. To do this, though, would the cards need to say "exile under Some Djinn"? Or is that just a memory device that should be left to the player? Yeah, banding definitely fits the flavor of the Shepherds...it's just a mechanical nightmare. I wonder if there's a workable way to combine the simplicity of Soulbond with the breadth of Banding? What if there were a Soulbond variant that allowed you to rebond your creatures at instant speed? Something like... "Linkage [COST] ([COST], : Link this creature to another unlinked creature. They remain linked for as long as you control both of them and you haven't linked either to another creature.)" And then the cards would be something like: "As long as ~ is linked to another creature, both creatures have [whatever]" So it's a bit more versatile than Soulbond, gives the broader harmony flavor (as you can relink to anyone when they need it), and isn't insanely complex. What do you think? |
Author: | IceMetalPunk [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
So I've been thinking a lot about the Flamehearts. They're the least well-defined faction here, both in story and in mechanics. What we DO seem to know about them is that Flamehearts are highly emotional, impulsive, and aggressive, and are easily offended and prone to seeking revenge. They're also, of course, masters of pyrokinetics (which would be pyromancy in any other set). So here's an idea I've been working on for the Flameheart keyword: Engulf N (Whenever this deals combat damage to a player, it deals N damage divided as you choose among up to N target creatures that player controls.) How's that? Too powerful? Not powerful enough? Too complicated with the distribution of damage? Just right? Amazing? Also, considering the origin stories of the creatures on Mentalis, I'm wondering if we should consider bringing back the Transform mechanic from Innistrad? I mean, think of it this way: a Flameheart gets too aggressive and transforms into an Elemental. A Mesmeric gets too powerful and transforms into a Djinn. A Foundry zombie finally crosses the Darkveil and transforms into a Spirit. And for the other colors, we could even introduce minor variations on the mechanic--an earth-based artifact transforms into a Golem Elemental, for example, and a light-based enchantment transforms into a Luminal! Or things like that. I don't know. Is Transform worth bringing back, or am I just getting caught up in flavor? |
Author: | storyteller [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: [Mentalis] Mechanics Development |
Transform could be a thing, for the fire beasts and the mesmerics. Might be better for the set if you just made separate cards for them, though. In that sense, Champion might not be half bad here. Some Djinn [cost] Creature - Djinn Champion a [Mesmeric creature type] *Some cool effect* Sacrifice ~ at end of turn. ?/? Oh, but I guess it doesn't quite make sense with Fire Elementals. |
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