So... your brilliant strategy here is...

1. Come into a thread about something you don't care about to mouth off about how much you don't care about it

2. Reveal that the ONLY thing you care about is draft

3. Reveal further that you only care about this project insofar as you can take other people's work for your own purposes

4. State that you hate the entire premise of this project and any project like it

5. Behave as though your opinion still should have some weight with anyone here.

That is... truly remarkable. Can't wait to see how that works out for you.

Knifethrower, if you don't like that magic's design is contemporary, wait a few years. Then it won't be contemporary anymore.

Sorry, I don't plan on bogging down this thread further than this, but I wanted to clarify a few things:

1: You pretty much got me...

2: You again pretty much got me.

3: This is patently false. I submit cards, I vote for cards I think are important, and I have dropped a line or two in discussions with intent to contribute. I hope that the people in this project benefit from my effort, and that I help make this set a good set. As for "taking other people's work for my own purposes," well I assume that every card submitted here was submitted because someone wanted it to end up in a set. I didn't really imagine anyone bothered by me deciding that their losing card was just the thing to help tie a draft environment together. I would also show my final project (if it comes to fruition) in a side thread, expressly because I will be using others' work.

4: This is COMPLETELY made up. I assume this is based on my observation that these projects don't seem to succeed, or that "democratic" card building processes are at a disadvantage (I would prefer to have a couple strong team leaders with a specific vision.) I do think both of these things. I don't hate anything about this project.

5: I did post my opinion. My goal was to illustrate, specifically to you, keeper, that I was approaching this project from a different philosophic angle than you, and probably many others here. When a diverse group of people get together to work on a task, not all of them will be working on that task for the same reasons. The way you phrased your earlier criticism of my comment seemed to imply that you thought I had the same motivations as the rest of this team, but was failing to act correctly.

It seems like you are bothered by the fact that I have an opinion, and that it is not the same as yours. Or perhaps that my opinion is (probably) not the majority opinion. But, since I like to play mental games, what if it was? What if turned out that this group of people really wanted to make a strong limited environment first and foremost while worrying about the flavor later? (side note 1: I read this is how Conspiracy was developed-the flavor painted on well into the playtesting of the set . "Contemporary design?")(side note 2: the disproportionate amount of attention given to mechanics vs flavor could be taken as an indicator that this is true among the people here, if we believe that people direct their effort towards what is important to them.) How would we know for sure if the people involved don't share what they do or don't hope to get out of the set?

While I don't expect the group to cater to my desires, my opinion is as valid as anyone else's.

It is my personal belief that since I am not damaging the process, insulting people, taking advantage of people, or infringing on the rights of others, it is the responsibility of others show me tolerance.

Didn't read, don't care.

You've made it clear you have nothing to offer here, and you did so in one of the more arrogant ways imaginable. I really have no interest in what you have to say.

If you don't care about the flavor of the set, why are you even reading this thread?

I'm not keen on tarring and feathering Knifethrower since he's voting and submitting cards and not hurting anybody. Obviously the set should have good flavor, but whether he's interested in that particular aspect of the project is up to him. Let's all take a step back and relax.

Whatever.

To return to the actual purpose of this thread, there are a few hinted at organizations already. It might be worth considering the factions we already have and the factions we might need.

So far we've got:

Frostbite (place? I think this is a place; it could also just be, you know, frostbite >_< Stupid Magic: The Gathering naming conventions)
--Artifact Matters (Relic Tokens)
--Blue

Elder Trees (maybe)
--Domain/Any Type
--Green

Coldhollow (on Cheapshot Enthusiast)
--Spells in general (maybe)
--Black?

Elori (on Apostle of Elori)
--Creatures/Enchantments (probably favoring enchantments flavorfully; Shamebearer reinforces that)
--White/Black?

Knifetail might be a Viashino tribe (Knifetail Waylay)
--No particularly clear card type
--Red

Consortium (Consortium Customs)
--Artifacts (Relics)
--White

And of course there's the regions Maraka, Illpyre, and Frostwynd.

Obviously this won't really be enough faction-wise, and some of these are kind of a stretch, but it's a start.

Shazzeh also mentioned:

Sunchaser
--Creatures
--White

Crushtread
--Creatures
--Green

Loamblood
--Lands
--Greeeen?

Have I got that right?

More or less, although, full disclosure, only one of the cards I mentioned is actually in the set and one of them actively lost a vote. There's definitely some question as to whether those are canon.

The viashino are probably creature-centric, since at least the black one is and Viashino Sandscout is definitely an enabler for that kind of theme. So far the red spells/artifacts love is on elementals and one human.

I can only speak for that which I have designed:
Frostbite is nothing. Frostblight is either an area in Frostwynd, or a synonym for Frostwynd, yet to be decided. It can't really be said to tie into any factions, as the area is likely close to uninhabitable for longer periods of time. Possibly constructs.

Elori is an Illpyre god closely related to the sun. S/he has an established enchantment theme, and is primarily white. Could feasibly appear for all colors, with blue being the least likely.

Viashino are solidly red, and preferably green, with the black one being an exception. They are likely creature centric, given their inclination to enter the battlefield multiple times.

Trade Consortium is a trade faction established between Illpyre and Frostwynd. It's quite probable that they will use Relics the most, as a representation of value. I'd imagine they show up in WUB.

Illpyre's religious and temporary theme means they have enchantments, instants and sorceries, while Blightwynd has artifacts, and quite likely lands, as a display of permanency. Maraka has diversity.

Without having checked with anyone else, my personal type map is:
White: Enchantments, creatures, artifacts
Blue: Artifacts, spells, diversity
Black: Enchantments, artifacts, spells
Red: Creatures, spells, artifacts
Green: Diversity, creatures, lands

Most of what Mown said is largely what I've been thinking. Exception/elaboration:

I have considered 'Frostblight' to be the part of Frostwynd that is furthest from inhabitable (like 'the great white north', 'above the tundra line', 'above the arctic circle', etc). I expect that on each side of the Maraka divider zone, the areas close to Maraka are not nearly as lifeless and bleak as the parts further from it. I see 'Frostblight' as a synonym for 'the bleakest reaches of Frostwynd'. And we should probably have a similar uber-Illpyre region as well. Which might well be where the Viashino and elementals live - an area too hot for human life.

This all might just be the Canadian in me, where ~80% of the population lives in the ~10% stripe of land closest to the southern border, land that was settled because it was a lot more arable than the colder northerly reaches.

Basically, this is my Starstill:


Red is Illpyre. Blue is Frostwynd. White is Maraka. Parts of Illpyre and Frostwynd close to Maraka are where the humans live, where the cities are built. The 'polar' regions are too cold/hot for human/plant life and that's where only species especially adapted to those extremes might 'live'. In Frostwynd, that would laregly be the mechanical, in Illpyre, that's largely heat-adapted animals and pyro-based 'life'forms.

The 'sun' is directly above Illpyre. The sun only shines on Illpyre. A moon on the opposite side (of Frostwynd) reflects just enough light that Frostwynd isn't bathed in darkness, but a low, nonwarming glow.

And maybe the 'Trade Consortium' can be its own independent city-state that rules over trade between the regions.

For what it's worth, that was my intent.
I'm not sure if I can see the Viashino in the Illpyre equivalent. I imagine that it's really, really terrible, so prolonged exposure is only possible for artifact/enchantment creatures, and element/spirit style creatures. I'd imagine that Viashino are in the 25%-50% range.

How unified are Sorceries and Instants? Are they sort of lumped together mechanically? I'm kind of getting the impression that they are.

Some of the earlier cards don't lump them together but at some point people decided it'd be impractical to make two different nonpermanent themes. I'm working under the assumption that people will want to merge the themes completely when we start development.

Nice. I hadn't really thought about enchantment creatures being immune to temperature extremes, but it makes perfect sense. And it would perfectly play up the duality of the plane to have the creatures in deep Frostwynd to be Artifact Creatures (and Spirits), and creatures in deep Illpyre to be Enchantment Creatures (and Elementals).


Do we want to flesh out what races are deliberately excluded and absent from this plane? There's been opposition to Goblins (how apt on NoGoblinsAllowed.com) ... I don't think we've seen Merfolk yet... nor Zombies... nor Elves... we haven't even actually seen a Spirit yet but it's probably a good idea.

We've got Human, Elemental, Demon, Angel, Serpent, Yeti, Viashino, Beast, Construct, Shapeshifter, Hellion. Consult the Elder Trees implies Treefolk even if we haven't made one yet. We've got a legendary Dragon and an expected counterpart to that, but should those two be the only dragons? And we've got one Vampire... which is starting to seem out of place right now.

We do actually have one spirit in Restoration Spirit.
I didn't say that green had an enchantment focus, but realistically speaking, it probably will. It's the color of enchantresses.

I don't see Merfolk making much of an appearance, given that one place is completely dry and another is frozen over.
I feel like Frostwynd is the one that needs the most worldbuilding at the moment. Right now, I'm unable to envision any non-human humanoids there. However, if I had to choose one, it would have to be Shadowmoor style fae creatures because of the mood I want from the place.

Restoration Spirit is a spirit. I think the type makes sense in the context of a nature spirit, walking around because it's pissed off about the Starstill, and I'd actually like to see more of that. The typical "small blue/white creature" role played by spirits should probably be filled by elementals instead.

Merfolk make almost no sense to me, although we could use them specifically because they show how crappy the Starstill was for the average inhabitant of the plane (all the water froze or evaporated). Goblins seem strongly unnecessary next to our viashino, elementals, and humans. I don't hate elves but we could replace them with spirits and humans for variety.

Definitely just the two dragons (or four if they had more siblings). And I agree the vampire feels weird. I'm not even sure about the angel.

How do we explain the constructs in Frostwynd? The enchantment creatures in Illpyre are posthumans or something, but artifact usually implies a creator. Are they just left over from before the Starstill?

EDIT: Actually, don't vampires make sense in Frostwynd? They hate sunlight, don't they?

Oh, yeah. Missed that. I think I also missed the reprints... so that's a Lhurgoyf ... I think that's the only (non-occupation) creature type that adds.

Vampires or Skeletons or Zombies could work in Frostwynd but that would be leaning pretty heavily on black. Faeries do make a lot of sense. ?Dwarves? - they're known to live in colder climes, and would give us a rare foothold of a red subtype in a cold environment.


It might be neat to have Merfolk Spirits / Merfolk Zombies ... to establish that all living Merfolk died off with the 'event'. Maybe the Merfolk can also be seen as the artificers. The Merfolk died but their automatons and golems and relics carried on without them.

I like vampires in eternal night.

Could we discuss where the story is going, too? The obvious end is undoing the Starstill, but that would be tantamount to destroying the plane. I hate the way Ravnica, Zendikar, and Innstrand ruined what made their planes unique. (granted, Zendikar is now unique for a different reason)