Yes. I said it. It's just a good card. It's not overpowered, and things like From Beyond are much more "op".

Bc how can I kill your 5+ drop when I'm on 2-3 mana? Reprisal, Fleshbag, getting you to run it into Graveblade Marauder or Celestial Flare.. and, that's it.

You are control. You are not beating me anyways, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Acid Moss. I could remove every copy of the card and I would still have a massive favored matchup against you.

The only 'control' card in that list IMO is Flare. The FACT is, that to kill opposing bombs, you need to pay for kill spells, or pay for creatures that can trade. A lot of them cost significantly more than two mana.. which is what I'm left with after you Moss me on the play (while you're at 5).

@megabeast, There are two things wrong with your statement:

1) In my last 15 games, I have had a turn 4 acid moss twice. In addition, the card has only mattered AT ALL in three games. One was against a 20 land deck, and the other two times it only mattered because of Greenwarden of Murasa. Yet we aren't discussing Greenwarden being op, despite obviously being the bigger problem recently.

IN ADDITION, you are completely ignoring all the games where someone gets hit by Acid Moss on turn 4 and keeps on trucking without any trouble at all.

You are arguing solely based on the best case scenario for the card, while ignoring all the games (which for me has been an overwhelming majority) in which it doesn't happen at all.


2) The only creatures in several ramp decks with more than 5 health are Ulamog and Oblivion Sower. FURTHERMORE, the cheapest "big" creatures in a large number of ramp decks are six mana, meaning they went turn 3 ramp, turn 4 moss in order to be able to play something ON TURN 5. Their board presence from the first 2 turns might be a 0/3 and a 1/1.

If your opponent goes jaidi offshoot -> elf -> ramp -> ramp -> 5 health minion AND YOU CANNOT TRADE, then you are doing something else blatantly wrong. It's not moss's fault. The godhand of turn 5 Oblivion Sower can technically happen, but that's rare enough that you can't say acid moss is op on that alone. Playing a big creature the turn after moss is not the reason you are losing to ramp. Edit: I guess Omnath can also be a problem if you have absolutely no removal, so I'll give you two cards out of 60 if they manage to be able to cast Omnath on turn 5.

MJack,

You are late to the party with this "revelation".

From Beyond is not OP...it's a rare. Oblivion Sower and Ulamog are not OP...they are Mythics.

Most people's issue with Moss is that it is a common, it ramps while it slows down the opponent, and on occasion is shuts the victim of the Moss out of the game.

Is it OP? I don't think so. Plenty of games for me it's an expensive ramp card that just happened to slow my opponent down a bit...sometimes, not even that. Other games, it straight won me the game, especially if I had 2 early.

Finally, while there may have been something wrong with Mega's statement, your retort didn't address anything about his statement...I'm actually not sure what that rambling mess addressed, actually.

He's complaining about turn 4 acid moss and being stuck at 2 mana while the opponent is at 5 (or more). The obvious situation here is thus a turn 5 play.

So yes, the entire "rambling mess" was responding to this. Otherwise, the only response to his post is that it's complete nonsense and he should put more lands in his deck if he's at two or three mana later in the game. Also he should be able to win against a ramp deck stuck at 5 mana.

------------------

As for being late to the party, if you've looked at the forums lately the party never stopped and probably won't until April at the earliest. Acid Moss complaining is still a thing.

Edit: Comment on the rarity in a second.

There are two points worth responding to here.

Before that though, telling me oblivion sower isn't op is ignoring the context. The entire point was that it's 1 card in 60 and thus not that relevant.


I would argue that From Beyond and Ulamog ARE op. This is before we get to other things they can cast turn 5 like Gaea's Revenge. And the reasons they are so safe against aggro decks.

From Beyond is a two of that tutors Ulamog, meaning it's your second and third copy of Ulamog in a deck that WILL have the mana to cast Ulamog. It also makes a token every turn and has the ability to ramp "for free". This, by itself, makes it one of the best 4 drops in the game for decks.

Drawn early in the game, you now have a bunch of ramp and chump blockers depending on what you need. Later in the game it's going to get Ulamog. It's a freaking swiss army knife in a deck that's already far above average.

This is before we talk about synergy with cards like Evolutionary Leap. It's way more powerful on average than Acid Moss, and thus much much more of a problem because it drives the consistency of the deck WAY up, which is much much more valuable than the 1 in 4 (being generous) games where acid moss's land destruction is relevant.

Ulamog......... the thing wins in 3 turns, has indestructible, and exiles two things upon entering the battlefield. The current best counter to Ulamog is....... Ulamog. In decks that have so much draw and thinning and tutoring that they ARE GOING TO GET ULAMOG. It's inevitable and they can even recur it if it's not exiled. The value on this one card is insane and it's completely op for the current meta.

By comparison, acid moss has to be drawn early or it's just "bad" ramp. Even then, a large number of decks, especially aggro decks, can just ignore the effect altogether.

---------

Responding to the second sentence, yes, most people's issue with Acid Moss is that it's common and occassionally shuts people out of the game. But IT'S NOT A GOOD REASON. People are way over-blaming it instead of looking at the things that actually make ramp an "op" deck. Things such as it's massive thinning and tutoring (compared to the rest of the meta), insane amounts of safety vs a lot of aggro, and insane counter cards like Gaea's Revenge that make it a generally "too safe" pick in the current meta. Acid Moss is just the scapegoat people blame the way some people in HS blame Thoughtsteal for everything.

What a bunch of garbage. Assumptions about my decks not running enough land, forgetting about the existence of Outland Colossus.. I just stopped reading there. It's just a bunch of drivel.. from a guy who just picked the game back up, but knows more about it anyone else on the forum.. and isn't afraid to shout at them with walls of bullchit text, spat from atop his high horse.

Welcome back mjack. You weren't missed.

Nope. You stopped really paying attention before that. Thanks for not thinking about what you read before you typed. If you had, you wouldn't even have typed this sentence.

And yes, "That's the most reasonable conclusion based on what Megabeast typed. Otherwise he's not running enough land, and that's his problem. It's obvious from the way I'm typing this that he's smarter than that" is WAY different than saying you need to run more land. If you were reading my posts you would have gotten some of that out of it. Instead of taking the worst and most wrong interpretation you could have possibly gotten out of that.


Edit:

On the other part of it, I haven't seen an efficient ramp deck run Outland Colossus and most of the lists I've seen don't include it.

So I do not believe it's a thing, and based on how the deck runs I would argue it's not a good thing if some people ARE running it.

Edit:

On the other other part of it, I know it's a long shot but heaven forbid someone with 11K posts pay attention to most of the content on their favorite subforum. Or watch tournaments. Or do research. Or play a lot of games more recently. Or have any other basis for supporting their views.

There are reasons I'm calling "Response Bias" and other crap here.

The first two responses here were the same thing that is repeated over and over and the very thing I'm saying has no basis. So YES, I think I know better than that. That's the point of the thread. Repeating it over and over won't convince me of anything. Otherwise I wouldn't have made the thread.

While the next two posts basically called my posts off topic ****. So yes, I've responsed to those less positively. Getting mad about it and taking my post out of context doensn't help. It just convinces me to listen to you less.

If moss bunch of ****, why everyone play it?

Pick deck with moss @ Go grind ranking @ Start thread - moss is fine l2p noobs

It sometimes is and sometimes isn't......it all depends what you're up against.
There's nothing wrong with an outland colossus though. Not all decks can readily remove a t4 or t5 6/6 threat.

Boy the content provided by these threads .... 'hai i r beck what r top dec?' 'hai I can't be arsed reading the other what r top dec thred, so sorry, but what r top dec?' 'hai, didnjoo kno that acid moss isn't too stronk, lul, l2p nubs!'

*sigh* again...

Right I'll do this ONE MORE TIME!

Moss isn't overpowered. What Moss is, is broken in our pool.

Without any fixing outside of going Green in every deck (limiting deck archetypes), or playing decks that can win consistently on 3 mana (not a lot outside RDW, also limiting), and all of 4 copies of evolving wilds (sets you back another turn, which means Moss gets double the tempo value). That's it, outside of counterspells. So if anyone wants to run Mardu colors you have no real options, so we can rule out that color archetype as a whole right? Seems fair.

Now if we're saying overpowerd i.e. Something that has a power level MASSIVELY above the majority of the pool, then it's Ulamog. Hands down. But "broken" is different since it doesn't mean overpowering the pool, it "breaks" the pool by bullying out a greater variety of options.

Don't listen to the meanies, my love.

Well, it's just a "f*ck you" card without a blue border. That's something many guys can't swallow

People don't like to have their toys broken, especially if they're only used to doing it the other way around. But that's Magic: interaction. If we removed that, we could all go play Hearthstone (plus something else during opponent's turns).

It's the opposite to interaction. It's going "you don't get to play magic" whilst only ramping your own side up. That's why mono green is arguably the simplest and least interactive archetype in the game. Ignore everything your opponent does, destroy opponent's mana whilst ramping your own, whack out fatties ahead of curve and watch their life number go down.

Counterspells actually require some thought, especially if you waste them early and find you have nothing left to stop the game-winning play.

Post/gif combo of the year.

Don't we all?

I love how mjack says the correct thing in the worst possible manner. I'm pretty sure it's not the first time this has happened lol

He's right, though. Moss is not the reason Ramp is the best deck in the format.