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In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
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Author:  Nicolas Bolas [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
BfZ?OGW?SOI?KLD?
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
Origins.
Author:  zzmorg82 [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
BounceBurnBuff wrote:
Origins.


Image
Author:  Black Barney [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
What were the best decks in Magic 2015? Jund Midrange with Pelakka Wurm? Izzet Burn with highly evasive Fiends (I forget what they were called)?

I would just compare how the best decks of each expansion would do against those and we'll get an idea of when it happened.
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
Black Barney wrote:
What were the best decks in Magic 2015? Jund Midrange with Pelakka Wurm? Izzet Burn with highly evasive Fiends (I forget what they were called)?

I would just compare how the best decks of each expansion would do against those and we'll get an idea of when it happened.


Oh, that's all huh?

BFZ, Acid Moss Ramp.
Author:  Black Barney [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
but Izzet burn would wreck BFZ decks, no?
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
I forget, how consistent was its turn 4 win? That'd be the only deck I can remember from 2015 to do so anyway, the rest would have their mana ripped apart and Ulamog'd. Remember the removal in that game? Me neither.

EDIT: Just checked some Izzet burn lists out on the old sub forum. They fold to Fiery Impulse and Twin Bolt hard, so I'm gonna go with BFZ as a srs answer.
Author:  zzmorg82 [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
The best decks in 2015 were Izzet Kil-Fiend aggro, Abzan Seance, Abzan Lifegain, and Abzan/Jund Midrange.
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
zzmorg82 wrote:
The best decks in 2015 were Izzet Kil-Fiend aggro, Abzan Seance, Abzan Lifegain, and Abzan/Jund Midrange.


Yeah, either Moss-Ramp didn't draw its Fiery Impulses/Twin Bolts vs Izzet, or its steamrolling all of those.
Author:  Hakeem928 [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
I think Satyr Wayfinder is powerful enough to maintain a 3-color mana base against Acid Moss. Those tri-color midrange decks also ran max copies of Cultivate and some number of Treasured Find. I think you're overestimating the power of Moss in those matchups.

How did the Moss decks close out the game? Was it Ulamog? Because Seance on a Rune-Scarred Demon to grab Angelic Edict was a pretty common thing in the Abzan deck. I guess Ulamog exiles the Seance.

It would be an interesting match.
Author:  Black Barney [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
Hakeem, you had some Azorious combo deck too that was really good (boring to play and watch, but really strong).
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
Hakeem928 wrote:
How did the Moss decks close out the game? Was it Ulamog? Because Seance on a Rune-Scarred Demon to grab Angelic Edict was a pretty common thing in the Abzan deck.


Outland Colossus
Oblivion Sower
Greenwarden of Murasa
Gaea's Revenge
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Desolation Twin
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Those were the ramp targets, at least from a glance. I don't remember Twin being that common. Anyway, after a couple of Mossings to cripple the mana of their opponent, Ulamog would just hit Seance and probably another land. GG, good luck getting to Edict mana before scooping.
Author:  DJ0045 [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
Ulamog wasn't in origins, but yeah, I'm on team BBB. Duels overshot 2015's power level really fast - just probably not in the very first set.
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
DJ0045 wrote:
Ulamog wasn't in origins, but yeah, I'm on team BBB. Duels overshot 2015's power level really fast - just probably not in the very first set.


I appreciate the support, but I disagree with...myself?...whatever. Acid Moss would wreck these with little effort, but 2 other big decks in BFZ season were Izzet Thopters and RDW. Both of which I don't think held a candle to 2015 decks, if only for Kiln Fiend going faster than either. Thopters just went over the top of Moss decks with flying.
Author:  Eonblueapocalypse [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
zzmorg82 wrote:
The best decks in 2015 were Izzet Kil-Fiend aggro, Abzan Seance, Abzan Lifegain, and Abzan/Jund Midrange.


The Boros Aggro Token build with Kiln Fiend.

And no, I am not just saying that because I was the one who built the deck.

Why yes, I will will on T4-T5 in 50% or more of my games. Oh, you have removal for my Kiln Fiend or Young Pyromancer? Good thing that Gods Willing is a thing!
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
Eonblueapocalypse wrote:
The Izzet Aggro Token build with Kiln Fiend.

And no, I am not just saying that because I was the one who built the deck.

Why yes, I will will on T4-T5 in 50% or more of my games. Oh, you have removal for my Kiln Fiend or Young Pyromancer? Good thing that God's Willing is a thing!


Unlike 2015 though, my removal doesn't come online turn 5+ when you untap for it :p
Author:  Eonblueapocalypse [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
BounceBurnBuff wrote:
Eonblueapocalypse wrote:
The Izzet Aggro Token build with Kiln Fiend.

And no, I am not just saying that because I was the one who built the deck.

Why yes, I will will on T4-T5 in 50% or more of my games. Oh, you have removal for my Kiln Fiend or Young Pyromancer? Good thing that God's Willing is a thing!


Unlike 2015 though, my removal doesn't come online turn 5+ when you untap for it :p


Hope you have it on T1-T2.

Basically, if you untapped on T3 with a Fiend or Pyromancer on the table you basically just won the game.

Edit: I derped in the original reply, I meant Boros instead of Izzet, the decks were pretty similar though.
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
That's what I've been saying. Chances are if you ran full suites of Impulse + Twin Bolt, you were seeing them in your hand or hitting them relatively quick. Jaddi Offshoot was also common, so you'd need to be punching through that for a turn to slow you down.
Author:  Eonblueapocalypse [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
BounceBurnBuff wrote:
That's what I've been saying. Chances are if you ran full suites of Impulse + Twin Bolt, you were seeing them in your hand or hitting them relatively quick. Jaddi Offshoot was also common, so you'd need to be punching through that for a turn to slow you down.


Meh, Shock was extremely common in the meta (and I think Bolt was added later, but I can't say for certain). Either way, cheap removal was definitely a thing in 2015, and it didn't really do a whole lot to slow down the deck. *shrug* Worst case scenario we put our self behind a turn by casting token producers on T2 and then Fiend/Pyromancer in T3 with Gods Willing mana up instead of the other way around.
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In which set Duels surpassed Magic 2015 in power?
Probably because (if ZZ's list is right) Red wasn't popular outside of aggro. 3 of those lists were Abzan, and boy I remember the quality removal options of Angelic Edict and Flesh to Dust. :bored:
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