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Card discussion: Walking Ballista
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Author:  Banedon [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Card discussion: Walking Ballista
Walking Ballista

I don't get this card. Even pros in standard run it, yet every time I've played it it's been completely and utterly underwhelming. I get that standard decks have to interact with the combo, but still. People are putting this main deck, not in the sideboard, which sounds absurd to me.

1) This card is a 2-mana 1/1, 4-mana 2/2, 6-mana 3/3, etc. At each of these points it is way overcosted.
2) This card virtually never trades at mana parity. For example a 4-mana Ballista can kill Thalia, Heretic Cathar, but you'd also have spent 4-mana to kill a 3-mana creature.
3) In the ideal scenario, you will kill something and still remain around (to chump, charge, etc). But this never happens. To kill the same Thalia without dying you need to invest six mana into it, which is absolutely tremendous. To kill Gideon, you need 10 mana. It's simply way too mana intensive.
4) Finally it does act as a mana sink, but it's an excessively expensive mana sink. For four mana I'd expect something like "draw a card" or "opponent discards a card" (there is actually such a card, Prophet of Distortion). There are also other excellent mana sinks such as Oviya and Tireless Tracker.

The only time I can see it as being good is if something else puts the counters on it. Winding Constrictor is the obvious example. But aside from that deck I don't see this as an option at all. Yes it can flip Archangel Avacyn at will, but Avacyn's a mythic. Every time I put Walking Ballista in a deck, even if I'm running massive ramp, I have been disappointed. Why do people use this card at all?
Author:  Black Barney [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
We all play it for the counters quest


In standard too
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
In standard it's a meta call (ping Saheeli, Motorists etc). For both Standard and Duels, it's a flexible lategame mana sink that gives creature decks some much needed reach.

I'm not as high as others on it, since most of what you'd use it's removal for requires 3-4 dmg out of it. Would have been great against Binderato's mono blue deck though.

@Barney: Pretty much the only reason I ever play it. Dumb quest.
Author:  Sjokwaave [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
Versatility. It's an artifact for starters which is not only useful for delirium, it enables cards such as Unlicensed Disintegration.

It provides instant speed interaction that can hit face or walkers. For :2: you almost have a Perilous Myr (a card that was removed from the game for its ubiquitous play) that can be sacrificed at will.

Combined with other removal/burn it alters the board state and makes you opponent have to make guesses and factor it into their play.

Obviously without the likes of Riskhar in Duels it isn't as powerful as it could be but it certainly worthy of the attention it receives.
Author:  Blissgirl9 [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
CGB puts it in everything with a pulse.. and after watching him use it, I see why.. sometimes. I think it's a bit overrated by its fans and a bit underrated by its detractors (which I was before). It's a solid, above average card.. but far from an auto include. The biggest pro of the card is that it can crew stuff at 1 power, and still slaughter tokens if you need it later.
Author:  VT2WA [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
In artifact decks, you have cards where you can return artifacts of sometimes equal, or less CMC. Walking Ballista has a CMC of 0.

But it's not an auto-include without synergy.
Author:  Sjokwaave [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
I forgot to mention in my post it also enables Revolt, which in real terms just means you can get maximum effect out of your Fatal Push.

A fringe consideration for sure, but I have had it come up a number of times.
Author:  Kryder [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
It can be used in any deck...that's its major upsell. And it is modular, so it just gets better as the game progresses.

It doesn't go in every deck, and it is better in some than others. But a solid card all-around.
Author:  DJ0045 [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
Kryder wrote:
It can be used in any deck...that's its major upsell. And it is modular, so it just gets better as the game progresses.

It doesn't go in every deck, and it is better in some than others. But a solid card all-around.


I was about to say the exact same thing. I'd only add that this is exactly why the card is so good. 'It can be used in any deck.' This means that while it's not always necessary, it is always playable. Whether it's a good meta call or not is up for discussion and will always be. But it should always be on the radar.
Author:  felbatista [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
You can't look at the card from a mana efficiency standpoint, because it trades exactly that for its versatility. It's similar to a Charm. None of the effects on Izzet Charm or Jund Charm are worth what you pay for them, yet they both saw play in Modern.
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
Sjokwaave wrote:
For :2: you almost have a Perilous Myr (a card that was removed from the game for its ubiquitous play) that can be sacrificed at will.


It's closer to a :2: Goblin Arsonist than Perilous Myr... better described as a 2cmc Mogg Fanatic with late game upside. It's versatility is important, but for just 2 mana in a deck that doesn't distribute +1/+1 counters, Perilous Myr is so much better (representing 3 points of damage).
Author:  Black Barney [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
isn't it basically perilous myr on crack? It's perilous myr for double the cost but with enormous upside.

I hated it at first but now I really like it. I've been driving opponents nuts with it.
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
I cast it for :0: the other day to trigger delirium with 5 lands in play so I could get full value from Ishkanah same turn. First time I had done that, and it was pretty sweet. It is a nice utility card.
Author:  Black Barney [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
casting it for 0 helps with the cast artifacts quest too.

Often when I'm about to kill my opponent, i play TWO Walking Ballistas in my hand for zero and then swing for the kill. He must be so confused.
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
Black Barney wrote:
isn't it basically perilous myr on crack? It's perilous myr for double the cost but with enormous upside.


Even at double the cost, Perilous Myr could block and kill a Sylvan Advocate on its own by T4, where WB can't. Yes it has upside, and I do think it's a pretty good card that can cause headaches for opps, especially in the late game - and if your deck has synergies, it's a very good card - but if we're talking about it as a :2: card, I don't think we should defame the good name of Our Dearly Departed Myr, when it's effect for 2 mana is the same as Mogg Fanatic.
Author:  Modulo [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
Ballista generally is a card that is used more as a roleplayer than a build-around; and currently many decks appreciate the role it plays.

Most others have already emphasized on the flexibility Ballista provides. It serves as a 2-, 4- or 6-drop; it can be either a threat or a removal spell. Yes, other cards might do each single role better, but other cards can't copy every single role the Ballista provides.

I agree that this flexibility merely makes the card good, not an include into most decks. What pushes Ballista over the top for many decks are its synergies:
1) It is an artifact. In a block full of artifact synergies, this is a huge gift for a flexible card as suddenly there is a huge incentive to play it (also, helping to turn on Delirium helps)
2) It is an awesome recipient for +1/+1 counters, which happen to be the theme of one of the better decks in the format. Whereas other creatures would just get bigger, Ballista can turn these counters into pings whenever you like.
3) It can easily trigger Revolt. Not the biggest of factors, but Fatal Push is a card and there are some (albeit not amazing) decks that revolve around triggering it.

For most of the current decks, at least one of the three synergy things hold true; the big exception are most control decks.
Author:  Eonblueapocalypse [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
Modulo wrote:
Ballista generally is a card that is used more as a roleplayer than a build-around; and currently many decks appreciate the role it plays.

Most others have already emphasized on the flexibility Ballista provides. It serves as a 2-, 4- or 6-drop; it can be either a threat or a removal spell. Yes, other cards might do each single role better, but other cards can't copy every single role the Ballista provides.

I agree that this flexibility merely makes the card good, not an include into most decks. What pushes Ballista over the top for many decks are its synergies:
1) It is an artifact. In a block full of artifact synergies, this is a huge gift for a flexible card as suddenly there is a huge incentive to play it (also, helping to turn on Delirium helps)
2) It is an awesome recipient for +1/+1 counters, which happen to be the theme of one of the better decks in the format. Whereas other creatures would just get bigger, Ballista can turn these counters into pings whenever you like.
3) It can easily trigger Revolt. Not the biggest of factors, but Fatal Push is a card and there are some (albeit not amazing) decks that revolve around triggering it.

For most of the current decks, at least one of the three synergy things hold true; the big exception are most control decks.


Add to that not having to tap to ping, which is a big deal. This makes is even more awesome as reach because it can function as both on the same turn (attacking for 2 for example, and then immediately pinging for another 2). It also makes it pretty good against removal, since even if your opponent tries to remove it, you either get some removal or some face burn out of the deal.

I think the :4: Add a counter effect really isn't that bad either. While 4 mana for a single +1/+1 counter or 1 point of burn isn't efficient by any means, it can still be relevant, and creatures that can repeatedly grow larger can be significant in certain matchups (like spending mana to buff a Ballista instead of playing more creatures against a control deck that is likely holding a sweeper).
Author:  SquiderDragon [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
I have never used it in a deck but I have had a number of matches where the opponent has and it's always been 'damn, I wasn't expecting that. Also it has potential when sitting on a board (just as perilous myr) used to as you have to factor in what it can do. I'd agree too not the auto include that perilous myr often turned out to be but its probably more likely to feature in decks you face due to that utility, and arguably better than myr late game.
Author:  Black Barney [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
who would argue that myr is better late game?
Author:  GimmickMan [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Card discussion: Walking Ballista
I thought this card was okay at best when I first saw it, but its won me over since then.

In addition to everything that has been already said by others better than I could have put it, Ballista offers something that most creatures don't: Inevitability. When two people are at a stalemate for multiple turns, the side with the Ballista wins. When a Ballista hits the board, the opponent must either remove it or win the game quick, because it's going to start picking off creatures or will simply grow out of control. It is not an efficient body or burn spell, but will become one if given time, mitigating your reliance on future draws and even turning land floods into gas.

That it synergizes with artifacts-matter cards and counters-matter cards is what makes it go from playable to an autoinclude in those decks. The prominence of 1-toughness dwarves and humans for it to mow down doesn't hurt either.
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