That's right. I said it. I hate vehicles. They are an aberration. They don't "fit" MTG...imo.
Hate revolt. Everyone is strugging to get the benefits from it. So at the end we all sacrifice stuff or else we are screwed.

Vehicles also buried black sorcery removal (specially this sucker here Smuggler's Copter). Black, my favorite color. I would like to take some time in memoriam of the ones we lost:
Bone Splinters or "kill something by sacrifying a creature and then cross your fingers so the opponent doesn't play another creature to crew his/her vehicles"
Reave Soul would be so good if it were an instant...
Murderous Compulsion Wait, this was dead on arrival.

Let's have a laugh... i mean, let's take a look at what they gave us to "compensate":
Daring DemolitionWell holy crap. We have been saved... if not for the fact that not everyone runs vehicles nowadays... right? Sorry, but if you have this in your hand you'll pray for the opponent to play a vehicle or else you'll just have to play it and also contemplate your life choices at the same time.

Let's take a look at other removal from red and white:
Exquisite Firecraft which you can redirect to the opponent
Declaration in Stone because you can exile Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger for two mana
Angelic Purge you basically exchange a permanent to exile something
Touch of the Void killing and removing something? sure, why not

All exceptional or "ok-ish" cards. And so on an on.

This is sad and i wanted to share my pain with you people. So what do you think? do you like vehicles? do you like revolt?

i like the pictures you draw and am upset I came into a thread of yours where there are none

on topic, i don't really see a problem with revolt. It's sort of a nice mechanic for people that hate seeing their things removed.

Vehicles, on the other hand, are super unthematic for this game. I don't like seeing activated manlands piloting cars. I don't like it.

but the aggro-frosty side of me says YAY!

Damn man. Maybe it's my control heart who speaks, because vehicles is indeed a dream for aggro. Revolt seems too forced as a mechanic imo. I mean, it's like making scry a mechanic so everyone start using it to get advantage. Cheap imo. I guess the MTG people is running out of ideas.

Also, will create my webcomic official page in here once i have enough to share of course

I don't have a problem with Vehicles.

Fatal Push, Fragmentize, Harnessed Lightning, Reclamation Sage, etc.

I don't like vehicles too as i don't see them fit in mtg, but i have no problems playing with and against them.
You made a list of some removals, but missed the best ones, as the ones in zz post, but also things like Blessed Alliance, Grasp of Darkness, Murder and more.
Even without vehicles around, removals as grasp and murder are better than the sorcery speed ones in that list.
Going off topic, i have seen the pictures in the other thread and they are very nice, i wish we could have them instead of the new awful personas in duels.

Revolt is a better Morbid. Definitely great, just not as great as in papers magic (especially modern) which is same as most mechanics in duels.
Obviously dying is easiest way to work it but you can do it other ways.

Also Reave Soul died when BFZ came.

Why Skyship Weatherlight fits MtG but Heart of Kiran doesn't?

Revolt will get MUCH better next set. You just have to wait with that kind of thing. I'm guessing we have yet to set the 'reason' revolt will be good, but there will probably be some mechanic it jives with.

Magic has always had vehicles, they just work differently now. If you don't like the vehicle mechanic, then that's that. If you don't like vehicles conceptually, I have bad news: Urza's Engine, Mishra's War Machine and Predator, Flagship are all examples of old vehicles, and I could dredge up more but I think you get the idea. So my question is, do you hate vehicles conceptually (as in, you don't want to see aetherpunk/steampunk/whatever vehicles in the game, which it has always had), or do you specifically dislike how vehicles were implemented in Kaladesh/Aether Revolt?

As for revolt, I think it's fine. I'm not wowed by it or anything, but it's a pretty flexible trigger so the mechanic will get better with time rather than worse. My gripe is with one-set-only mechanics that don't play well with others, like Colorless Mana from Oath of the Gatewatch. The only thing I can say in its favor is that gradually we will get better sources of colorless mana that can also produce colored mana, which will make splashing the cards easier. Or Allies. If we ever saw the creature type outside of Zendikar, it wouldn't be so self-contained and limiting. Revolt isn't so bad, it triggers from having a permanent leave the battlefield. It already combos up well with flicker and bounce effects, and Aristocrats-style sacrifice, so the mechanic becomes easier to use over time much faster than the other two I mentioned. If you think revolt is boring, then that's that. Not much to add when it comes to personal preference.

I don't think Revolt is amazing as a build around mechanic, but some of the cards are fine stand alones 'with upside'. Feel like Push will persist longer than any of the Surge cards in Duels, for comparison.

I think WotC has done way worse than Revolt. Epic may be the worst ever, and personally I found Morph to be such a clunky/inelegant eyesore on the table that I lost my desire to play magic for a few years when it dropped.

I don't mind vehicles from a thematic aspect. Sure it's comical to picture, say, Rancid Rats piloting a Smuggler's Copter, but no less comical than picturing those same zombie rats equipped with Inventor's Goggles. Vehicles are in line with equipment - in practice they're artifact stat modifiers, just more effective due to pseudo haste and 0 mana 'equip' cost.

Huh? AER is the next set - as in the 2nd half of the Kaladesh block. And they gave us plenty of cards to make revolt easier to trigger, like the implements, renegade map, etc. It's pretty much a standalone gimmick much like Emerge was in EMN. I actually like it - way better than morbid. It can be built around, but can also easily be 'splashed' into any deck with any sort of sacrifice theme. I've got Rallier in my landfall deck even tho my only sac cards are fetchlands - it just meshes with the existing strategy so well.

Vehicles are not my favorite addition, primarily for thematic reasons. They do help to make PWs less oppressive since they tend to survive most sweepers and can easily press the assault the turn after a board wipe (something that would normally require haste) so I see them as serving a purpose. But the KLD/AER vehicles seem more sci-fi than fantasy (excepting the skyships). Maybe future sets will give them different flavors (think haunted stagecoach in the next Innistrad, or chariots in the upcoming set). So far, I think the worst mechanic we've gotten in duels is def ingest/processor. Some of the processor effects were good, but the ingest cards are so horrible that no-one can be bothered to use them and without ingest, processors just fail. If BFZ didn't have dual lands...

You just explained my point. So... thanks?

I don't have a problem with Revolt. It's just another fun mechanic to play around with. I don't like vehicles though. They are a bit too good in my opinion and you see them pop up in every deck. Sorcery removal is so much worse now at the point that it's almost shut down. I even don't see Declaration in Stone that much anymore.... I don't like it when that happens, not very good for the meta.

Why is that thing shooting it's lazers at the enemies on the ground? Didn't the artist know it only kills flying creatures? WTF Mark Tedin?

Oh, sorry for the confusion Fel. I was building on your quote in order to respond to the OP.

I don't mind on of the mechanics at all. And I don't think I have ever not liked any mechanic the games as thrown at me. Revolt is actually nice because it is not hard to have anything leave the battlefield. It doesn't say has to die, or go to graveyard or be exiled specifically, just leave the battlefield. Like some have said, Evolving Wilds, Renegade Map and any kind of bounce makes it work. Also the cards that exile your own creature and put into play and give it counters, not to mention the planeswalkers that start as legendary creatures that leave and come back also count.

So there are plenty of ways for it to work.
and your decks is your source for energy(lands)
as for the vehicles, no issue with me from them. sucks to have one beat your ass, but there are ways to stop them and "vehicles" have been around almost since the start. Juggernaut would be one, especially if you saw the art from the older versions if it.

As for things not fitting magic the gathering, how can that be? they created it so they can do whatever they want. along with that point comes what another said about rats controlling vehicles. One thing everyone needs to remember, since the inception of magic, it has always been the same: The player is the planeswalker. The deck is just a representation of what yo have at your disposal to use. Energy(mana/lands) to draw your powers from and then any various spells to use to summon creatures(which you control and can make do anything) oand stuff like that.

so yes, you can use your powers as a planeswalker to make that rat pilot the machine. and I feel that makes it funny a hell to picture that actually happening.

people should be happy that they have never enforced the ante rule in magic. and in the first digital game I ever played for magic, thay actually did have you ante up to play.

And as for the ingest mechanic, it is perfectly fine, there just isn't w whole lot of discard I have seen so far, but I also do not have all the cards unlocked yet. But if I remember right, one of them is a blue card for 2 mana, that has ingest and is unblockable. how is that not good? people always raved and used anything that was unblockable cause it was guaranteed damage unluss it was burned or murdered and syuch(but lets face it, that happens to all creatures for the most part outside of hexproof and the like) and on top of the unblockable, it has the added bonus of milling your opponents decks(one at a time but it still does it). Its never a bad thing to get rid of your opponents spells majority of the time.

I don't like you.

Jokes aside, that's my point. Sorcery removal is dead in black, which is suppossed to be its strenght to kill creatures. If so, then WotC should have given us some decent discard sorcery already. It's disgusting nowadays. Duress? Mind Rot? or Addle? would be decent even with so many multicolored decks.



Well i guess so ¬¬ but still i feel like the black sorcery cards are less effective with each expansion.
About the drawings, will start posting some stuff this weekend


Vehicles in genereal, in my opinion, are broken. Too effective. I would say that they would be more balanced if there were a limitation on the crewing ability, maybe costing mana, so using the crew ability instead of just attacking with your creatures should be a tougher decision to make and only viable in certain contexts. But now everyone is screwing vehicles. No fun


I agree. This reminds me of the affinity times. There was no much fun in those days. Dark times indeed.

And as for mechanics as well: people used to hate life loss as a mechanic to do anything. Then they loved it because what it was capable of doing.

Which makes me come to this: people talking about "god hands" and being able to kill someone on turn 4 and 5. Pfft. this is a god hand:

Turn 1: drop Mountain, then drop Black Lotus, tap Black Lotus obtaining Green mana, then cast Channel, at this point you have 1 green mana left and still have your mountain. tap the red, use the green, convert 19 life(leaving you at 1 life) into colorless mana from Channel cast Fireball to your opponents face for 20 damage. DRop rest of your hadn on table and walk away like a boss.

Turn2: There is no turn 2.

AAAHHHHHH, the good old days.

Why vehicles don't need energy? that's it! that would be a perfect way to make all vehiclkes balanced. Crewing with creatures plus investing energy. That way the effects on the vehicles could be better and this way we wouldn't see so many damn vehicles in almost every single deck. I mean, Smuggler's Copter is banned now on standard but not on Duels but still with a crewing 1 and an energy counter cost would be still a very good card.

About ingest, i would say it's so balanced that no one plays it nowadays. The meta right now is artifacts and vehicles in particular. If you are not into it then you are struggling to survive the aggro basically.

Sorcery speed removal has always been bad. I don't agree with you that Sorcery speed removal is black's strength. Dark Banishing has been the basis for my comparison for ALL black removal since Ice Age, and it's Instant.