Everything is possible with advanced planning, but I want to play when I have a spare few minutes not have to organize things with other people. I want to chat to the random's and if we have good games we can become 'friends' and play with or against each other when we are both online. That is what happened in DotP for me, but doesn't anymore.

"Gateway" is not something I made up, but it is what Wizards/Hasbro thinks Duels is about:

Interview with Wizards' Marketing Manager Liz Lamb-Ferro about Duels

PAX 15 video preview

Maro's infamous "Ramp of Approval" article equating Duels to free paper Sample Decks

Hasbro CEO's idea of where Duels stands in the digital Magic realm

Now you may disagree with Wizards about what you like Duels to be, but it is also been clear from Wizards what it positions Duels as.

It may be for a lack of an intermediate product that Wizards haven't already downgraded Duels to an entry level product (it tried with the "hold priority bug", but got shouted down by enfranchised players to whom it didn't have anything else to offer). However, I think things will change when Wizards gets its act together to get real digital products out the door to fill the gap between Duels & MtGO.

You could always just go to the Discord Chat server for Magic Duels, find someone there who wants to play, and you have everything you need.

Well.. how advanced does the planning need to be? I get online, I look at my friends list.. I see a buddy I want to play with, I send him a message, "Wanna 2HG?' If he responds with, "Sure." I say, "Ok lemme send a party invite." Where y'all could say, "Ok.. let me send you a invite on XYZ chat program." It's not THAT different. Also.. I don't want to communicate with randoms, because I simply refuse to play with them. I don't feel that being paired up with people who aren't on the same page, whose decks don't compliment one another, makes for an enjoyable experience. For instance: In 2013, if I brought Mana Mastery to a 2HG game, and a random brough Goblin Gangland.. that makes no sense, because in the early game, it's a 2v1 vs my opponent, and in the late game its a 2v1 vs me. That type of stuff happens all the time in random 2HG lobbies.. and it sucks. IMO.. the game is meant to be played in a coordinated fashion.. it's not like CoD where 6 random people can make up a squad and it's fine.

I don't think there is a gap between MTGO and Duels, because there will never be a 100% free game in hopes it will lure people to the very expensive alternate formats, as your largest target group will not be interested in that. Even if MTGO was an awesome looking pro version of Duels with all the cards and game-modes and rule sets, I still don't think people will want to spend the cash it takes to build your own card collections that way.

I can see people spending $30-60 a year on new expansions, for the causal crowd but any more expensive than that and your into the hardcore/pro ranks that probably want tournament style prizes.

I agree Beast that the 2HG game-type really needs to be played with a friend to get the most out of it, and even then you really should be playing against another pair as well rather than 2 randoms. I probably wouldn't play 2HG even with chat but I still want it for the 1v1 ladder.

The only thing that is slowing me down is my phone getting hot after two games and the ios version not wanting to connect me to people for versus games. That and Dragonball Super, I still gotta watch like 30 episodes to get caught up!

Again, it is not what I think or you think, but rather what Wizards/Hasbro thinks that matters.

Take a close gander at these again:

Maro's infamous "Ramp of Approval" article equating Duels to free paper Sample Decks

Hasbro CEO's idea of where Duels stands in the digital Magic realm

So you cannot see a business model between free-to-play and the expensive, but redeemable-set, MtGO model? How about something like a subscription model (kind of like MMO) applied to a standard rotation of card pool (funny, who alluded to that... see next link)? What if you consider Wizards' current CEO has experience with "software-as-a-service" model? Look carefully at the business history of the people Chris Cocks is bringing in via the creation of Digital Game Studio.

My best friend has fallen behind in his purchases and feels so overwhelmed by the amount of cards he's missing that he immediately blames that for any losses he suffers so he's given up on the game.

I've said it many times before but if you like playing the game, I don't see what the problem is. You get to play Magic for free. if I found this game today, I would be playing and grinding each day until I one day own everything. i would enjoy doing it. I still enjoy doing it. I wonder how exciting it would be buying boosters SPECIFICALLY to acquire certain cards, opening the packs would be exciting then I'd jump into the deck builder and make tweaks. Very few of us here get to enjoy that aspect of the game since we just buy everything on Day Zero of the expansion (like today). I've gotten to do that at the beginning and it was really fun finding Elvish Visionaries and such.

Anyway, selfishly, i really hope this actually gets worse for new players in some ways because the frequency of me getting hate messages, "way to buy your win" or whatever will get more and more frequent and I like those. I want more of them.

Yeah there was no substitute in the early days for playing and excitement of opening new packs and updating a deck or decks. I feel that is lost to new players. Another maybe pertinent point is at the start of a set after upgrade "All Level 1's are equal". But in reality as a new players if you are unfortunate enough to meet a "full set" L1 player it is going to be like wtf.

Of course such players quickly level up to the highest level but maybe give a thought to the newbies you are crushing easily as its won't feel so good for them.

Card collection is a big part of it.. but new players don't know the savvy of playing that gives you advantages. Just simple things like playing your next creatures on 2nd main phase, waiting until the last possible second to use instants, not putting do-nothing enchantments like Flameshadow Conjuring in your deck, building for the meta, building appropriate mana bases, etc. A lot of those things aren't immediately apparent to new players.. and unless somebody actually teaches them that stuff, they'll pretty much always, always, get their chit pushed in by better players.. even if they're playing Boros vehicles vs random jank. Even when you teach them.. a lot of times, they don't listen because they think the benefit gained is negligible.. like using instant speed removal on your turn vs on the opponent's turn, where you could net a 2 for 1 off an aura or pump spell. Basically.. they're dumb and need to git gud.. and having all the cards won't fix that.

I'm another one kind of. I played a bit from Revised--->Tempest and then went to college and sold all my MTG cards. Duels (well, more specifically the 2013-2015 DOTPs) brought me back to paper magic and pushed me even into MTGO briefly. But I quickly abandoned paper because no IRL friends and MTGO because I would have to spend HOW MUCH?!

So back to Duels for me

The Hasbro Link is what I was describing, that is the different player profiles, and I don't think they are aiming to put something in between Duels which is aimed at the casual player and MTGO which is the Pro/hardcore, but potentially one platform that can be used for both. We will have to wait and see, but the casual box will always have the most people in it so ideally you want that to be your highest revenue stream and at the moment it is not even close for Wizards.



Exactly this is the case for a lot of the casual block, we don't mind spending a bit on the game we like playing but will not be interested in anything that takes it beyond normal video game costs which the ceiling is probably an MMO style sub at $10-15 per month but because its a CCG with a simple game engine you would expect max $5 a month.

It's funny how much we talked about/foreshadowed this when the game was first releasing.

Folks have two options: grind and/or pay (I guess the and/or could be considered 'both' therefore a third option but who's splitting hairs?). If they choose grind (to any degree), they have to deal with the definition of that choice. DotP didn't have that choice and I don't believe MtGO does (although folks mention trading etc to cover costs). I personally don't believe 'Magic Next' will either. So in the end, at least there is a grind option to choose, even if it's a steep climb.


elk

It should be noted that even if the causal box have the most people in it, that doesn't mean you need that to be your highest revenue stream. Much depends on market segmentation with their varied purchasing needs and power. I don't recall the exact numbers right now, but a few years ago MtGO brought in a sizeable chunk of profits since it had high margins with heavy users. Wizards may not be good at executing digital initiatives, but it knows its markets better than you or me.

It's funny you mention "wait and see". I used those words back in July/August of 2015 re: Duels' viability and persistence. I found it very information in going back & reviewing the irrational exuberance of optimism that existed back then.

"The enfranchised crowd" {great quote by the way} are hoping it will continue, hence the original OP on is it attractive enough over time for newcomers.

I guess it will always be a waiting game - you imagine development has to start around the time R&D are finished with the new set. Given the release schedule and announcement about new expansion we hope that there is the next expansion and so on. In particular if Magic Next or whatever comes goes down a different route (and the casual and lower cost aspect to play a 'version' of MtG exists) may mean that there is nothing suitable after.

From a planning perspective you would think if AKH being next set in new block lands then HOD would follow.

Even as it is now there is a good pool to e.g. probably make a decent draft cube for example. As long as the infrastructure exists to support the game and a community of "The enfranchised crowd" it will probably live on beyond its support if and when they discontinue it. I mentioned before that I think its the next version, whatever Magic Next is that will end development in Magic Duels as supporting 2 similar digital products does not make sense. Its fine of course to have a different IP like Magic the Gathering Puzzle Quest but not something new akin to both MTGO and Magic Duels. As Barney point out they may be clever enough to create a dual product that satisfies casuals and hardcore (in money terms). Possible but unlikely.

The fundamental disconnect you have here is that you really enjoy magic AND also don't mind losing all your games.

Some people don't like to lose all the time. It IS possible to really really like digital magic the gathering but have no fun playing the game because you can't win multiplayer games against anyone but the absolute worst of the people playing the game.

^ Speaking of I'm quitting at the 15 hour mark. I'm not having fun getting seal clubbed.

git gud.

But mjack I don't lose that often. On a really bad day I lose 25% of my games. On a really bad day. On a good day I lose 13-14% of my games.

No matter how hard I try I can't hit those Steveo numbers how did he make it so nice and round too?

The only thing that makes Stevo nice and round is dictating his own posts to himself in the mirror.

I wonder if we just summoned him?