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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Question on this one as I'm scratching my head. As a finisher, isn't Herald worse than Gearseeker Serpent? They're the same cost, Herald taps the artifacts it uses to lower the cost, and if Thopter spam is relevant in this format (likely) then it gets chumped where the other cannot. Obviously the demon has upside like discard which depends on matchup for usefulness, and being able to sac redundant artifacts which is only really useful vs cheap aggro critters. Tell me if there's something I'm missing there please. :confused:

As far as the Expertise vs Languish argument goes...well, you'll just have to wait until Friday :p

Rest of it is solid, I'd have given the Prowler at least a 1 as being a creature with some useful utility, even if there aren't many X/1's to target atm.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Question on this one as I'm scratching my head. As a finisher, isn't Herald worse than Gearseeker Serpent? They're the same cost, Herald taps the artifacts it uses to lower the cost, and if Thopter spam is relevant in this format (likely) then it gets chumped where the other cannot. Obviously the demon has upside like discard which depends on matchup for usefulness, and being able to sac redundant artifacts which is only really useful vs cheap aggro critters. Tell me if there's something I'm missing there please. :confused:

As far as the Expertise vs Languish argument goes...well, you'll just have to wait until Friday :p

Rest of it is solid, I'd have given the Prowler at least a 1 as being a creature with some useful utility, even if there aren't many X/1's to target atm.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Discard doesn't really depend on matchup, that's always good. And the removal ability is obviously huge. And Herald's evasion doesn't cost 6 mana per turn.

If Herald stays on board for a turn, you'll win. You could ignore the Serpent for 2-3 turns while they essentially tap out just to win in for 5.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:28 pm 
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divinevert wrote:
Discard doesn't really depend on matchup, that's always good. And the removal ability is obviously huge. And Herald's evasion doesn't cost 6 mana per turn.

If Herald stays on board for a turn, you'll win. You could ignore the Serpent for 2-3 turns while they essentially tap out just to win in for 5.


Madness Vamps :p

But yeah that's why you guys are the brains and I'm the not.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:30 pm 
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divinevert wrote:
Discard doesn't really depend on matchup, that's always good. And the removal ability is obviously huge. And Herald's evasion doesn't cost 6 mana per turn.

If Herald stays on board for a turn, you'll win. You could ignore the Serpent for 2-3 turns while they essentially tap out just to win in for 5.


Madness Vamps :p

But yeah that's why you guys are the brains and I'm the not.


If you're slamming a 7-drop and they are relying upon that 7-drop to be their only discard outlet, congrats on the W.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
I think the more likely new mono deck has to be green though. Green just got a bunch of missing one drops that might just have made it valid - and the 2 drop mana elf could also be a big boost.


I actually think mono-Green is already viable with KLD; we have three quality 1-drops (Kessig Prowler, Scythe Leopard, Gnarlwood Dryad; all at Uncommon), "Mythic Uncommons" in the 2-drop slot (Duskwatch Recruiter, Longtusk Cub, Undercity Troll (and also Sylvan Advocate)), and amazing curve-plays for t3-5 (Bristling Hydra, Verdurous Gearhulk, all of the Nissas, Tireless Tracker). Add two amazing combat tricks (Blossoming Defense and Primal Bellow (probably the best payoff for being mono-green IMO)), a good removal spell (Nature's Way) and maybe a vehicle or two; and there you have your Stompy deck.
Also I have had some success with GC Ramp; though I don't know whether you'd consider that mono-green.


Mono-Black is not that far off being playable; in fact I have had some success with mono-Black during BfZ and have built a mono-black deck for fun which is close enough to playable right now. Maybe AER gives that deck the (fatal) push it needs.


Green just got a lot better is all, I'm not sold on some of the cards you just mentioned, but they have some better replacements now, IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:01 pm 
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It's not really a 7 drop tho.

I think if I was playing Madness, I would try to abuse the forced discard outlet as best I can, but having a 5/5 flier on the table is pretty problematic. Hopefully by the time it gets out, my madness cards are burn and opponent is close to death. Has anyone worked out what the earliest turn is feasible for Herald to come out (let's be realistic here and not assume the opponent has hit me with a Declaration in Stone repeatedly).


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:06 pm 
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It's not really a 7 drop tho.

I think if I was playing Madness, I would try to abuse the forced discard outlet as best I can, but having a 5/5 flier on the table is pretty problematic. Hopefully by the time it gets out, my madness cards are burn and opponent is close to death. Has anyone worked out what the earliest turn is feasible for Herald to come out (let's be realistic here and not assume the opponent has hit me with a Declaration in Stone repeatedly).


Using legit cards? Possibly t1 Bomat, t2 Scrounger (smug Copter also does it), t3 Pia or Thopter Engi (also Tireless Tracker can get you there), t4 Herald.

If you wanted to do it in blue, I'm sure it's also doable t4, but I don't know what the three drop would be - still though it's no problem as you just need 1 artifact per turn up to t4. Doing it t3 is currently impossible, I think - as I can't think of anyway to get 4 artifacts into play by t4.

I believe Servo Schematic is the only 2 drop we've got access to that can put two artifacts into play on t2.


Last edited by DJ0045 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:11 pm 
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yeah, this isn't a Magic dork challenge to come up with the earliest possible drop. Let's legitmately talk about what a deck could do if it was built well. t4 i think is realistic as well. obviously t3 is possible but super unlikely. I think t4 could happen and t5 is probably the absolute latest you might expect it to come out (all other things being equal). It seems like it's basically a 5 drop (if we average) which is crazy for what it does. Too bad it's mythic. I really like this card tho.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:20 pm 
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I think it's reasonable to see it as a 4 drop in a lot of decks that would play it. I'm not sure if those decks are just Rakdos as described above, or UB artifacts or what though.

Right now, I'm mostly just sad that Lupine Prototype can't crew Consulate Dreadnought all on its own. :cry:

And then I realized Lifecraft Awakening let's me attack with it t2 in any case. And THEN I realized we didn't get it. AND THEN I realized it wouldn't have worked in any case. nevermind


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:31 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
It's not really a 7 drop tho.

I think if I was playing Madness, I would try to abuse the forced discard outlet as best I can, but having a 5/5 flier on the table is pretty problematic. Hopefully by the time it gets out, my madness cards are burn and opponent is close to death. Has anyone worked out what the earliest turn is feasible for Herald to come out (let's be realistic here and not assume the opponent has hit me with a Declaration in Stone repeatedly).


Using legit cards? Possibly t1 Bomat, t2 Scrounger (smug Copter also does it), t3 Pia or Thopter Engi (also Tireless Tracker can get you there), t4 Herald.

If you wanted to do it in blue, I'm sure it's also doable t4, but I don't know what the three drop would be - still though it's no problem as you just need 1 artifact per turn up to t4. Doing it t3 is currently impossible, I think - as I can't think of anyway to get 4 artifacts into play by t4.

I believe Servo Schematic is the only 2 drop we've got access to that can put two artifacts into play on t2.

Bone Saws.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:35 pm 
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I was going to write that off as silly, but it occurs to me that for Improvise cards, Bone Saw is basically a mox. It's worth a brew, IMO.


Last edited by DJ0045 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:37 pm 
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It's not really a 7 drop tho.

I think if I was playing Madness, I would try to abuse the forced discard outlet as best I can, but having a 5/5 flier on the table is pretty problematic. Hopefully by the time it gets out, my madness cards are burn and opponent is close to death. Has anyone worked out what the earliest turn is feasible for Herald to come out (let's be realistic here and not assume the opponent has hit me with a Declaration in Stone repeatedly).


You can use the forced discard outlet once.

And then I untap and, if I haven't already, I sodomize your entire board. I really hope you have a ton of burn in hand, because your creatures are donezo.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Turn 2 demon with 4 Bone Saws and a 1-drop. You know someone gonna try and achieve it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Turn 2 demon with 4 Bone Saws and a 1-drop. You know someone gonna try and achieve it.


Personally, I like the idea of holding up Metallic Rebuke t1, or playing maverick thopterist t2, lol. I think UR improvise could actually be a thing. I look forward to trying it. Too bad we didn't get Ornithopter. (Hard to say if the deck is UB or UR though.)

With Reverse Engineer in the set, we actually have the draw to make this less silly too.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Well, I guess everyone answered about the Demon? I should said that the Demon can also be played and kill something in the same turn, which is something the Serpent can't possibly do.

Anyway, cool discussion. Now we just wait for TIMH to come and complain about some random jank getting a better grade than Conviction and we can move on to the next article :P

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Curious to determine whether the payoff is high enough on a card like t2 Enraged Giant, which is yet another card I would normally never bother playing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Probably not since outside the christmasland T2 Giant it is pretty ****. Maybe T3 is decent but still asking for a lot for it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:10 pm 
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I hope you're all looking forward to the "Black STILL sucks" thread :p

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Probably not since outside the christmasland T2 Giant it is pretty ****. Maybe T3 is decent but still asking for a lot for it.


Anything more than t2 and we'd have better/more consistent options.


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