This was a debate that was opened up in my Rakdos Haste deck thread and I'd like to have it with the entire forum, as I think it's thought-provoking.

I included Fatal Push instead of Shock because I wanted to be able to remove defensive roadblocks that reduced my clock and could block favorably. These roadblocks are quite prevalent in the meta, including but not limited to: Sylvan Advocate, Gifted Aetherborn (has been showing up a lot lately), Thing in the Ice (super annoying!), Kari Zev (not defensive, but can eat 1 toughness dudes the turn she comes into play), the new blue flash 0/4, opposing copters, Heart of Kiran, etc. etc. etc. Shock won't deal with any of these annoyances, but Push hits them all, and allows me to keep swinging profitably.

Now.. I fully understand that Shock has it's merits. I've needed to win and needed two more to the dome, it's happened.. not very often, but it's happened. Thalia with Push in hand vs my haste deck is all kinds of feel bad, requiring a two for one. Being able to hit planeswalkers is a big deal to some, but in aggressive shells a lot of time you'll want to swing right past them to bring your opponent within burn range. Push deals with the tokens made by Gideon/Arlinn, so it's a wash there.

Anyway.. I'd like to hear y'all's thoughts. Which one is more relevant in your meta?

..and remember, I'm trying to keep this in the perspective of aggressive shells.

It's pretty straightforward from a deck building perspective. If your deck is highly evasive (or corner case, has plenty of first strike): shock. If your deck is non evasive: fatal push.

Fatal push is the better 'wall' removal by far. It should perform much better in a haste shell.

Try shock in a trample/menace/flying shell (possibly first strike, but we don't really have the card right now).

Also, fatal push is a MUCH better card in general, so if you can't decide, but you're running black, you can easily default to fatal push.

TBH you could probably run both, I see the decision as not shock vs push but shock vs fiery impulse. Push is much better than impulse so your removal suit can be 4 x shock and 3 x push, then depending on the deck other burn spells like temper.

It really does depends on what the meta calls for which.

Killing Baral, Druid, Gifted Aetherborn and (if revolted) Aethersphere Harvester is too big to ignore TBH.

The only aggressive shell that would run both is Rakdos, which would prefer Shock.

It's an instant that will kill the f*king copter, so it gets my vote.

This.

I have done a lot of testing with aggressive Rakdos decks (Vamps and Artifacts) and most of the time I would favor having Shock. Keep in mind also that Rakdos also has access to Unlicensed Disintegration which similarly fills the role of Push (removing stuff regardless of toughness) albeit slower (but with the potential of extra reach as well).

Should you have access to discard outlets as well (which Rakdos likely does) then Fiery Temper should be considered in the discussion also.

My current Rakdos Artifact build runs 3x Shock, 3x Fiery Temper, and 3x Unlicensed Disintegration and generally doesn't have too many issues where it needs unrestricted removal and doesn't have a UA in hand. Shock and Temper cover most things early on to push damage, and by the time thing start dropping that need that more potent removal, you should either have a UA in hand, or have the opponent close enough to death to burn them out with Shock/Temper/UA in combination with your aggressive (preferably evasive) threats.

Were I to include Push in my deck, the furthest I would go would be -1 Shock, +1 Push, and I still don't think that would be particularly beneficial (since the face burn is so relevant in the deck).


Could you post the deck in question? Would probably help to better understand which is better for you.

Plus Rakdos likely spams fliers and Key to the City for evasion, so it's all about counting down from 20.

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17700&p=532122#p532122

@Eon: There it is.. it's a haste/menace deck.. but mostly haste.

I'd say it depends on how your deck is aggressive.

If your deck's aggression mostly stems from (non-evasive) creatures, Push is the way to go.
If you are more on a burn Plan, Shock is correct.

Regarding your list, I think you made the right call to run Push over Shock. Divinevert is correct in his assessment that Rakdos Madness would rather want Shock due to being more burn-focused.