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[ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=26517		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Flopfoot [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
Image
Author:  CommanderJim [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
No thanks.
Author:  Tevish Szat [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
So she makes "walker" tokens but wants to attack with Zombies. Fail.

Also I am going to remind everyone that Nalathni Dragon was supposed to have taught Wizards to not do EXACTLY THIS ages ago, and I'm going to do it in every thread for these punks.
Author:  CuriousHeartless [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
The Walkers are Zombies...which you wouldn't know from this card by itself and have to see the tokens it comes with.
Author:  Tevish Szat [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
CuriousHeartless wrote:
The Walkers are Zombies...which you wouldn't know from this card by itself and have to see the tokens it comes with.

I figured as much.

And that makes it a kind of terrible card.

I also realized that it doesn't specify anything about the tokens' qualities like color, P/T, or abilities. This is... really bad.
Author:  CommanderJim [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
CuriousHeartless wrote:
The Walkers are Zombies...which you wouldn't know from this card by itself and have to see the tokens it comes with.

You're probably right, but out of curiosity, have we actually seen the Walker tokens? All I've seen is this token which doesn't say Walker anywhere on it.

Edit: Wait, I just found this image, which is the same, but it does say Walker. I'm guessing that's the correct one, but then where the heck did that first image come from?
Author:  Barinellos [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
Even beyond this being monumentally dumb
0/10
Not a survivor
Author:  Aaarrrgh [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
WotC are facing a lot of backlash from this, which I feel is right. I looked at Maro's Tumblr post where he asked for opinions. Hundreds of notes, and I think I saw ONE which was in favor of this.

Mitch of the Commander's Quarters (one of the biggest EDH youtube channels) made a video called "Wizards is dead to me" where he implored the Commander Rules Committee to ban these cards before they are released so Commander players won't have incentive to buy them.

Everyone hates this. I hope they listen.
Author:  AzureShade [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
Image
Author:  neru [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
I am generally very moderate and "wait and see" about WotC moves but I also dislike this product. It feels tacky, like if Magic were to move in the direction of Funko Pops or other cheap nerd collectibles. Magic has its own brand, it does not need to do this.

That said, I cannot help but roll my eyes at the "I am quitting Magic!" and "Magic is dead!" that always come out.

Also, is The Walking Dead even still on? Who is still watching it?
Author:  Aaarrrgh [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
I never watched any part of the show, but my understanding is that it ended recently but will be followed by a spin-off. The Secret Lair drops along with the spin-off premiere.
Author:  TPmanW [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
At least the Neagan card is a good card design. I don't even know what's going on with this one. The card doesn't make a lot of sense, and I don't feel like it explains what Michonne is about either. I've read the first 18 volumes of the comic and I can't say I understand what all these abilities refer to.
And yeah, they do seem a couple years late on the Walking Dead tie-in.
Author:  CommanderJim [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
TPmanW wrote:
At least the Neagan card is a good card design. I don't even know what's going on with this one. The card doesn't make a lot of sense, and I don't feel like it explains what Michonne is about either. I've read the first 18 volumes of the comic and I can't say I understand what all these abilities refer to.
And yeah, they do seem a couple years late on the Walking Dead tie-in.

When we first meet Michonne, she keeps two walkers on leashes as a way to keep other zombies away from her, so the abilities represent 1) the two zombies she originally kept, 2) her katana-wielding, and 3) her strategy of using neutralized zombies and a zombie deterrent.

So the abilities are flavorful, although mainly in a "we read Michonne's first page and designed around that" kind of way. I do agree that they're pretty incoherent mechanically.
Author:  Ragnarokio [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
what exactly do people dislike about this, the offloading rules text to a seperate card?
Author:  CommanderJim [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
Ragnarokio wrote:
what exactly do people dislike about this, the offloading rules text to a seperate card?

It's less about this specific card and more about the Walking Dead Secret Lair in general. It's introducing brand new black-bordered cards that are legal in legacy and commander, and those cards are 1) significantly outside of Magic's usual flavor, and 2) limited in supply to however many get ordered by players during the 8-day drop period.
Author:  TPmanW [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
CommanderJim wrote:
TPmanW wrote:
At least the Neagan card is a good card design. I don't even know what's going on with this one. The card doesn't make a lot of sense, and I don't feel like it explains what Michonne is about either. I've read the first 18 volumes of the comic and I can't say I understand what all these abilities refer to.
And yeah, they do seem a couple years late on the Walking Dead tie-in.

When we first meet Michonne, she keeps two walkers on leashes as a way to keep other zombies away from her, so the abilities represent 1) the two zombies she originally kept, 2) her katana-wielding, and 3) her strategy of using neutralized zombies and a zombie deterrent.

So the abilities are flavorful, although mainly in a "we read Michonne's first page and designed around that" kind of way. I do agree that they're pretty incoherent mechanically.

I didn't even remember that she kept zombies on a leash. Actually, there's a good chance I missed it- I'm pretty sure I missed a couple of issues.

Ragnarokio wrote:
what exactly do people dislike about this, the offloading rules text to a seperate card?

That is a big strike against in my book. What even is a "Walker"? It's a zombie, but apparently not a zombie in the rules? Does the walker token have a color?
That and the whole card isn't that cohesive flavorfully.
And then there's the Secret Lair stuff.
Author:  Aaarrrgh [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
The Walker issue isn't really that big. Treasure tokens are defined in the rules instead of on the cards now (although most cards still have reminder text, Negan doesn't). That means they can do the same with Walker tokens. And since the token cards come packaged together with Michonne, there's no rush of anyone buying the card without having access to the correct token. However, it is also another reason they can't reasonably reprint these cards, because it becomes an issue if you don't have the token card available.
Author:  Ragnarokio [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
yeah printing extremely limited availability cards that are tournament legal is extremely exploitative
Author:  CommanderJim [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
This is minor compared to everything else, but I realized one thing that annoys me about this card in particular is that it forces the comprehensive rules to define what a "Walker token" is... forever. I can't even keep other IP's out of my precious rules documents!
Author:  Flopfoot [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [ICD] Michonne, Ruthless Survivor
Calling zombies “walkers” has been a thing since before the walking dead though

Looks like they’re colorless?

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