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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:02 pm 
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Archetype of Endurance
Enchantment Creature — Boar Uncommon
Creatures you control have hexproof.
Creatures your opponents control lose hexproof and can't have or gain hexproof.
Despite its fearsome stature, it is as elusive as a shadow, circling round to stalk those who presume to hunt it.
Illus. Slawomir Maniak #116/165 6/5


And now we know what the green one does. I was expecting trample. Hexproof seems like an off call.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Wow this could be great in commander.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:29 pm 
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<3 <3 <3
<3 <3 <3
<3 <3 <3

:eek:

:D

:angel:

:takei: :doh:

I love hexproof, so this is a bit of a mixed bag for me, I'd love having it on my side of the field, but my opponent having one would be harsh if I had a hexproof deck. It's also kinda costly mana wise, so I have my doubts about playing it outside of a heavy green ramp deck or commander.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:43 pm 
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...I really hate mass hexproof/shroud. Individual creatures is fine, but these things that make everything uninteractable just make a boring game. The fact this takes hexproof away from the opponent just makes it worse.

But good in commander.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:48 pm 
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This is pretty sexy.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:57 pm 
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jedi8187 wrote:
...I really hate mass hexproof/shroud. Individual creatures is fine, but these things that make everything uninteractable just make a boring game. The fact this takes hexproof away from the opponent just makes it worse.

But good in commander.

This seems to me like unjustified hate. There are so many ways around hexproof, you can have mass spells that don't target, when it comes to removal things like sacrifice effects, stuff that selects types or qualities rather than targets, and so on. I think hexproof encourages people to introduce a wider variety of effects. Giving hexproof to creatures is particularly not as bad, since they are often involved in combat. I think it is more boring to have spells and abilities constantly super-reliable, always having viable targets out there.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:21 pm 
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Another reason why Lightning Greaves is just better than Swiftfoot Boots.

Aside that jab, I'm glad they didn't go with trample for some reason. They could have made them somewhat asymmetrical, though, like grant an ability, remove something that the colour isn't pied in to.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:31 pm 
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jedi8187 wrote:
...I really hate mass hexproof/shroud. Individual creatures is fine, but these things that make everything uninteractable just make a boring game. The fact this takes hexproof away from the opponent just makes it worse.

But good in commander.

This seems to me like unjustified hate. There are so many ways around hexproof, you can have mass spells that don't target, when it comes to removal things like sacrifice effects, stuff that selects types or qualities rather than targets, and so on. I think hexproof encourages people to introduce a wider variety of effects. Giving hexproof to creatures is particularly not as bad, since they are often involved in combat. I think it is more boring to have spells and abilities constantly super-reliable, always having viable targets out there.


My problem isn't with hex proof. it's with granting every creature you control hexproof permanently. Those answers aren't present in every color, are often not very good. Sacrifice removes your ability to choose, types/qualities effecting spells are often too niche, overcosted, etc. to be worth running regularly, especially when trying to deal with an army of hexproof creatures.

Individual creatures with hexproof, or all creatures with hexproof for a turn, don't bother me. Heck if your field is full of creatures that naturally have hexproof or got them from enchants or other creatures or what have you fine, you worked for that (in build and play), but cards like this are just boring and uninteractive.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:40 pm 
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jedi8187 wrote:
My problem isn't with hex proof. it's with granting every creature you control hexproof permanently. Those answers aren't present in every color, are often not very good. Sacrifice removes your ability to choose, types/qualities effecting spells are often too niche, overcosted, etc. to be worth running regularly, especially when trying to deal with an army of hexproof creatures.
To be fair, this thing costs eight mana to cast. By the time it sees play, the colors that are weak to Hexproof should have won the game already.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:46 pm 
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jedi8187 wrote:
My problem isn't with hex proof. it's with granting every creature you control hexproof permanently. Those answers aren't present in every color, are often not very good. Sacrifice removes your ability to choose, types/qualities effecting spells are often too niche, overcosted, etc. to be worth running regularly, especially when trying to deal with an army of hexproof creatures.

Individual creatures with hexproof, or all creatures with hexproof for a turn, don't bother me. Heck if your field is full of creatures that naturally have hexproof or got them from enchants or other creatures or what have you fine, you worked for that (in build and play), but cards like this are just boring and uninteractive.

Did you also hate Avacyn, Angel of Hope, since it doesn't have answers in every color and grants everything indestructible?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:36 pm 
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I'm glad that this one has a prohibitive cost.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:38 pm 
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Did you also hate Avacyn, Angel of Hope, since it doesn't have answers in every color and grants everything indestructible?


Yes.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Cards that cost 8 should win the game outright. So this is actually kinda of weak by that standard.

It seems that the archetypes explicitly grant stuff that the 5 mono-gods and their weapons do NOT grant:

in BGRUW order:
gods: no life gain, trample, 2 damage per dude, scry, vigilance [thassa also grants unblockable for mana]
weapons: lifelink, deathtouch, haste, draw card on hit, +1/+1
archetypes: ??, hexproof, ??, flying, firststrike

maybe black is regenerate?, red is intimidate?
or black is intimidate, red is firebreathing?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:01 pm 
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Zenbitz wrote:
maybe black is regenerate?, red is intimidate?
or black is intimidate, red is firebreathing?

The firebreathing and regenerate won't work very well, due to the static rather than mana cost ability theme they have going, and because they don't work as well with the prevent the opponents' creatures from doing it mechanic, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were some overlap to get around that problem.

Perhaps Black will have Intimidate, and Red will be an expensive Doubble-Strike one?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:05 pm 
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Bacon.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:55 pm 
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****, as if Trollshroud wasn't OP enough.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:56 pm 
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Did you also hate Avacyn, Angel of Hope, since it doesn't have answers in every color and grants everything indestructible?


Yeah I did

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Every sane person hates hexproof.

Also this card is an abomination and just looking at it is physically painful. Glad it costs 8 mana though so it will see 0 play in any relevant format

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:42 am 
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bull****, as if Trollshroud wasn't OP enough.

Booo! ;)
Fenix wrote:
Every sane person hates hexproof.

Also this card is an abomination and just looking at it is physically painful. Glad it costs 8 mana though so it will see 0 play in any relevant format

I guess I'm mad then! :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:23 pm 
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If you hate hexproof then you should like this card because it is one of the few cards that let you target hexproof creatures. I think it might even be a bit political in EDH. No one will want to kill you because you're the only one letting them kill that other guy's Uril, the Miststalker


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