Ikoria went too far

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The Secret of TIMH

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:38 pm

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I’m curious to see the argument why it’s unacceptable.

In effect (tho not identical mechanically), it’s like stacking auras on a creature. It’s not as goofy aesthetically as Augment or Meld. Visually it’s not going to look any different than putting Bronzehide Lion on another creature. I can see the complaint on Companion - conditions related to your deck build break the 4th wall in a way that feels more appropriate for a supplemental set - but mutate doesn’t feel abnormal in an expansion set to me. TBH I wish that had been simic guild’s thing in RNA; would have been more interesting than Adapt’s well tread +1/+1 counters.

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purplebackpack89

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:20 pm

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Ragnarokio wrote:

There was huge blowup when transform was first spoiled with people saying it was silly and stupid and magic had jumped the shark and it was an un-set mechanic and that magic was over and etc. and etc. but i think it ended up being a relatively popular mechanic ultimately. There were at least 5 threads about it on the mothership during spoiler season.

I personally think its a good thing to take risks on designs, particularly if the fallout from those risks will be temporary if they don't pan out (which may or may not be the case with magic depending on your perspective). Being willing to be adventurous and try out new ideas that might not pan out is a good way to keep things fresh and to learn more about your game going forward.

As for whether companion and mutate will be flops or not, I think that the best way to answer that is to play with them. R&D has presumably already done this, and so they probably have a better perspective on the merit of the designs than any of us do, but I would guess they recognize that what they're doing has a high chance of backfiring when the cards are released to everyone and evaluated by a much larger and much more varied group of players.

If we're talking about jumping the shark, nothing says that more than http://mythicspoiler.com/iko/cards/sharktyphoonp.jpg

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purplebackpack89 wrote:

Is it just me, or does Bruse Tarl look like an 1890s Barnum circus strongman who'd hawk strength tonic patent medicines on the side?

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Tevish Szat

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:48 pm

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I mean, are we to forget Goblins who were really bad at their jobs, Black-Border Beebles, Meme caption flavor text, the fact that there was literally a character named Shadowblayde...

I'm not saying making a Sharknado card wasn't low, a bizarre appeal to a faded zeitgeist that had only ever had the draw of something that should never have existed, but I don't think it was uniquely low.

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The Secret of TIMH

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:00 am

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The banana flavor text is the closest of your examples, but I’d say sharknado is uniquely low. Goblins being bad at their jobs is cheeky, but in character. Beebles are also a tad silly, but not particularly absurd. Beeble memes came from the Urza block cards, not the other way around. When WotC played with the beeble meme, they did it in un-sets. Sharknado is in a whole different category. It’s not that a fantasy card game must always be hyper serious and can’t have jokes - but a card that references a movie that was only ever popular due to its extreme absurdity does stand out.

That said I think the card is cool in what it does, even if I find the reference a bit cringey.

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Barinellos

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:23 am

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Tevish Szat wrote:

This just reminds me, I miss stuff like vizzerdrix and this commercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn2BMbg5yLo

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Aaarrrgh

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:30 am

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I would like to take take this opportunity to remind everyone that a major character in Mirage was literally named "Mr. Toilet"

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Ragnarokio

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:54 am

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i feel like wizards has done pop culture references a lot in the past

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UselessCommon

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:23 am

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I kinda like how ballsy Ikoria is.
Everything in it is overcomplicated and it doesn't care. Everything in it is corny and it doesn't care. That's nice to see after the New World Order tyranny and bland plots.

Sharknado is an amazing refrence to have. Oh, and

Quote:

but a card that references a movie that was only ever popular due to its extreme absurdity does stand out.

Oathsworn Knight

Honestly, what bothers me the most there is how it's hard-coded that Humans can't mutate.
I am also concerned about power creep. The new Ultimatums are way too powerful, the G/B mythic is disgusting, and I am worried about draft devolving into "whoever makes a big creature first, wins". At least it has some good common removal.

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The Secret of TIMH

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:48 am

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UselessCommon wrote:

Sharknado is an amazing refrence to have. Oh, and

Quote:

but a card that references a movie that was only ever popular due to its extreme absurdity does stand out.

Oathsworn Knight

Excuse me sir

(A) that’s way more subtle. I hadn’t even made the connection until now, when I was looking for a connection to make

(B) Sharknado became a meme by nature of its stupidness. Holy Grail birthed a million memes because of its genius :teach:

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purplebackpack89

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:51 pm

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Tevish Szat wrote:

It's the combo of a card that LITERALLY has "jumping sharks" PLUS the far-out mechanics

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purplebackpack89 wrote:

Is it just me, or does Bruse Tarl look like an 1890s Barnum circus strongman who'd hawk strength tonic patent medicines on the side?

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Ragnarokio

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:19 pm

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The Secret of TIMH wrote:

UselessCommon wrote:

Sharknado is an amazing refrence to have. Oh, and

Quote:

but a card that references a movie that was only ever popular due to its extreme absurdity does stand out.

Oathsworn Knight

i don't think sharknado is stupid, i think its absurd, which is probably the same brand of humor that monty python employed (albeit the execution is very different). That said, I don't think making a card which references a comedy movie is much more excusable in the event that the comedy movie is better received critically.

aggressive mining is apparently a card
grave bramble too

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The Secret of TIMH

Post subject: Re: Ikoria went too far

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:54 pm

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It’s stupid, and it revels in that. It’s fine, theres a place in the world for everything. Stupid can be absurd, but absurd can also be clever. We can have a friendly agree-to-disagree back and forth on the silliness level of sharknado, but you’re objectively wrong comparing the humor of Money Python with Sharknado and saying the only real difference is critical acclaim :teach:

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