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Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
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Author:  Zenbitz [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... 15-sealed/

I kinda think he's not. But I may just be tilting from a bad 4 rounds of sealed.
Author:  storyteller [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
I didn't see anything that seemed overly weird, though I personally would never go to 18 lands.
Author:  rstnme [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
Makes sense to me. I probably should've played 18 lands at the prerelease, and gone more all-in on filling my graveyard like I originally wanted to and not backed off the strategy bc people in my playgroup thought it would be bad. Hindsite 20/20 etc.
Author:  Cato [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
18 lands can be a valid choice if you have a high curve. I ran 18 in my prerel deck.
Author:  Zenbitz [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
I should probably work out the math on what curve you need for 16-17-18 in limited. I think it requires a simple simulation. My usual rule for 16 is like 8-9 1 or 2 drops and 0-2 4s and 5 (total). I know in my sealed decks I ran mostly 3s and 4s, and I considered running 18 but stuck with 17.
Author:  Zlehtnoba [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
I think you overanalyze it, Zen. Just go by your gut. If you think you would like to have six mana by turn seven, or eight at the latest, go to 18. If you never need five mana, go to 16.
Author:  Zlehtnoba [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
storyteller wrote:
I didn't see anything that seemed overly weird, though I personally would never go to 18 lands.


Well, now that I've read the article, I can say that 18 lands is the main point. Everything else flows from that. He could be a bit less arrogant about it, but it makes sense to me. Thanks for the link, Zen.
Author:  rstnme [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
I have a friend who insists on playing 18 lands in limited and 25 in Modern, so I can see this standpoint. I have a tendency to draw 7-11 lands in a row so my anecdotal evidence tells me not to.
Author:  dtolle [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
I think my issue with the article is that every piece of advice he gives is all pro strategy, yet he doesn't ever show you pro decklists to support.
Author:  Zlehtnoba [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
Well, there are two deck lists in the article, his prerelease builds. I assume he's a pro?
Author:  Zenbitz [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
"Draw first" is a little counter dogma as well, although it's not the first time I've heard it.
How long have they been doing core set sealed? 4 years?

As for my gut, I'd trust it more if I had more games under my belt.
Author:  Zlehtnoba [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
Draw first is usually recommended for slow formats. Non-core-set drafting is usually not slow enough for this to apply. For example, in Theros full block, most decks want to go first, but you can draft a control deck that wants to draw first; in triple Theros, you always wanted to go first, regardless of what you drafted, because going first was such an advantage for the aggro RW decks.

What Travis is saying, in effect, is that core set sealed is slow. And reminding us that, in slow formats, you should go last, play big spells, and the means to cast them.
Author:  Cato [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
He mentions that brawler's plate is a common. This is false.
Author:  Zenbitz [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
Well, Ima test this out tonight, LGS is having an (unseeded of course) m15 sealed event tonight.
I guess the "pro" insight here is predicting that the format is slow enough for 18/lands draw first before you've played.

I also did not think sacred armory was particularly playable, but I do see the value of mana sinks.

Keeping 1 or 6 land hands? That doesn't seem wise to me. I don't even like keeping 2s or 5s.
Author:  rstnme [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
I've done decent at PTQs running meh aggro decks to subvert this kind of thinking. Like, just missing out on 6-2 to top 8 and such, so there's that... but only at smaller (100ish) events where there aren't any pros besides, like, Zac Hill.
Author:  Zlehtnoba [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
I think that the main point is what you can expect from an average sealed core set pool. And he overstates, to impress us that this kind of deck is viable. He doesn't, for example, give any indications of what you should look for when you're deciding whether to go for a slow deck, or to try for aggro.

I'm reading that as, in addition to normal decks, there is also this thing, and it wins tournaments when built right and played right. But I'm not sure if I would build the same deck from his pool, even if I decided to adopt his premises. I'd probably change a card or two, make a play mistake or two, and end up 3-2.
Author:  rstnme [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
Woo's personality is also skewed by hyperbole -- he's trying to be the crazy rogue deck guy, and he needs to project an image of enthusiasm to maintain his brand. It makes him entertaining, but he's still got some good points. I also think his pools were pretty good anyway, and he played to his strengths... kinda like how I win more events when I play aggressively and lose more when I play control/midrange-y. Just a thing.
Author:  Zenbitz [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
I am pretty sure I will open some crazy aggro pool tonight. Hopefully I won't be dumb enough to run 18 lands and draw first!

I do have to say, in general, when I consider going to 18 lands I find that last cut very difficult. I guess cut the 8th non-creature spell?
Author:  rstnme [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
Depends. I find going 15/8 usually means I have a dense lower/middle-curve with one fatty bomb and some removal, so I'd be more likely to cut one of the crappy 4-drops I'm probably playing. Flood the board, play removal until I draw my bomb, etc.

I typically go 16/7 or 17/6 though. I also think this is a format where it's the person who plays the most creatures that wins, something I'm going to test in draft tonight.
Author:  Cato [ Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Core Set Sealed: Is Travis Woo insane?
Screw the numbers. It's all going to vary by what you open in your pool. If you get 3 borderland marauders, you can go for a 17 land aggro deck, if you get 3 flesh to dusts, you go for the 18 land control deck. And the creature/noncreature numbers vary too. Sealed is about making the best deck with what you have, not setting hard numbers before you even open your packs.
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