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M15 prerel experiences http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4709 |
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Author: | Cato [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | M15 prerel experiences |
I went to prerel today. Unfortunately, we had a midnight prerel last night, so most people were sleeping in from that. We only got 10 people and 3 rounds, but I 2-0'd them all. Here's my deck: 2 x Typhoid Rats 1 x Goblin Kaboomist 2 x Altac Bloodseeker 2 x Child of Night 3 x Witch's Familiar 1 x Rummaging Goblin 1 x Nightfire Giant 1 x Indulgent Tormentor 1 x Siege Dragon 2 x Lightning Strike 2 x Covenant of Blood 2 x Flesh to Dust 1 x Grindclock Basically what happened was that I played against bad players for 3 rounds in a row. Like, the guy I played last round, who was 2-0, was running ornithopter. My round 2 opponent played Soul of New Phyrexia, which I instagibbed with double lightning strike, then never used it from his gy. My recollection is a bit foggy, but he might have actually been able to win if he had. Also, several of my opponents mistakenly played auras and expected them to not be terrible. Big mistake. So how did my deck operate? Well, it went by the classic Cato deck model of "keep them from winning until you do something unfair". Let's take a look at the cards that helped me do those things. Defense: Typhoid Rats: If you're a slow deck, which you should be if you're black, these are really important. On the defense, these trade for any non-evasive threat in your opponent's deck, or possibly just keep them from attacking altogether. Witch's familiar: Solid early defense. Child of Night: it trades with their early guys, I guess. Not stellar, but curve considerations are a thing. Goblin Kaboomist: popped 3 of these guys to blow up a marked by honor boonweaver giant. Fun times. Altac Bloodseeker: Pikers are OK. Threat of activation is great. Unless they have a 5 toughness guy, they can basically never block this. I recall getting at least one 2 for 1 with it. Lightning Strike: insane as always. Covenant of Blood: surprisingly cheap to cast. With 2 guys, you can turn 5 it. I actually never ended up casting it with convoke, because nobody ever made me use it early. It's also worth noting how few things this doesn't kill. Flesh to Dust: Need something dead? Look no further. Punish greedy idiots for playing auras, kill their bombs, or just get rid of their curve topper commons. In a format of boardstalls where only a handful of cards actually pose a threat, unconditional removal is king. Offense: Nightfire Giant: Wins games. There isn't too much removal in the set that hits this guy, the format's slow enough that you can use him, and this kills a lot of stuff. Once all their x/1s and x/2s are gone, start attacking with your durdles and trading up. Once you have all their guys dead, start murdering their face. Grindclock: suspend 10 for , you win the game. If your deck has enough typhoid rats and witch's familiars to make it work, go for it. Indulgent Tormentor: Honestly, did anyone not expect this card to be overpowered? Siege Dragon: This kills a lot of stuff. Hard to lose a game where this guy gets to attack. The only common removal that hits this guy is Flesh to Dust, Hunt the Weak which is conditional, and Blastfire Bolt and Plummet which you shouldn't be playing md anyways. |
Author: | Nekomata-sensei [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
Complete losses, my deck was: 8 x Plains 6 x Island 2 x Swamp 1 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 1 x Constricting Sliver 1 x Boonweaver Giant 1 x Spectra Ward 1 x Amphin Pathmage 1 x Rogue's Gloves 1 x Statute of Denial 1 x Wall of Essence 1 x Flesh to Dust 1 x Oppressive Rays 1 x Raise the Alarm 1 x Avacyn, Guardian Angel 1 x Pillar of Light 1 x Illusory Angel 1 x Negate 1 x Triplicate Spirits 1 x Sign in Blood 1 x Chronostutter 1 x Pillar of Light 1 x Mind Rot 1 x Resolute Archangel 1 x Selfless Cathar 1 x Shield of the Avatar 1 x Oreskos Swiftclaw Other rares include another Shield of the Avatar and a Hoarding Dragon. Not much in the way of other cards worth mentioning in colors I had the support for. I kept drawing mostly just small stuff and removal and being out-raced by enemies with lots of tokens that were larger than 1/1, either due to being green or being pumped by those 4 drop flag color dudes. I really could have used something along the lines of mass removal or the bee queen and better green cards to go with her. |
Author: | rstnme [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
I had a pretty good pool. Drew match one because of a single misplay, match two I played a guy who hosed me with Soul of Theros and Chasm Skulker and Triplicate Spirit in both games, match three I lost to screw game 1 (2 lands on the draw in my opening hand and 10 draws with no lands) and flood game 3 (6 lands in 7 draws lands), match 4 I won. Went on to draft a sick BW deck for a winner takes all draft, but lost match one to 6 mulligans across 3 games and multiple cone-flame-wrath of god blow outs, then dropped. I basically suck at drawing cards, I feel like bobus is haunting me. Anyway, I went on to play my conspiracy cube for the first time and I won that, so I'm clearly very good at free magic. I would say the games where I drew lands and could play spells too where some of the best limited games I've had in a year. Match one and match four of my prerelease in particular. Soul of Theros is broken. Roughly a third of prerelease participants got a soul in their seeded packs, which made for some stupid, "oh look i play card and win" games. |
Author: | Nekomata-sensei [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:36 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
Yeah, really powerful creatures at mythic rare in a set with minimal and overcosted removal sounds like a bad idea for a limited environment. And the souls for the most part are only good for limited. I'm starting to think that despite a few odd cool things in it thanks to design, M15 overall was badly managed by development. Current prices on the cards of the set don't help convince me otherwise, especially since the most expensive card in the set right now is Garruk, who isn't even likely to be constructed playable, and seems to be priced that way for kids looking for cool stuff. |
Author: | Zlehtnoba [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
Nekomata-sensei wrote: Yeah, really powerful creatures at mythic rare in a set with minimal and overcosted removal sounds like a bad idea for a limited environment. And the souls for the most part are only good for limited. I'm starting to think that despite a few odd cool things in it thanks to design, M15 overall was badly managed by development. Current prices on the cards of the set don't help convince me otherwise, especially since the most expensive card in the set right now is Garruk, who isn't even likely to be constructed playable, and seems to be priced that way for kids looking for cool stuff. Look at your pool. You have three spells in it that kill each and every one of the Souls, instant-speed. Five, if you count the two counterspells. Plus, all of the removal costs less than the stuff you want to kill. Your problem is your creature curve, any halfway decent deck curving out just rolls you. With commons. One one-drop, three two-drops, no three-drops, two of those early plays can't really kill anything. It's quite possible this was the best you had; what I'm trying to say is you have removal for the bombs, you just don't have the grunts. |
Author: | Cato [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
I'm glad my opponent with a soul didn't know how to read cards. That certainly gave me an edge. Anyways, they're mythic, so at least there's that. As for removal, go black. Flesh to Dust, Typhoid Rats, and Covenant of Blood at common gives you a decided advantage in the bomb-answering department. I agree with Zlehtnoba, your curve is a train wreck. Also, your black splash is terrible. Aside from Flesh to Dust, your splash is mediocre, and you're splashing several double black cards, which you can pretty much only play off Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I also find it hard to imagine that you would need to play so many mediocre cards even in 3 colors. |
Author: | Zenbitz [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:59 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
I played two decks. The first one went 0-2-1 although I made a last turn misplay in the draw (game 2 after winning game 1) where I wasn't playing around Hunt the Weak (really any removal spell). I went black and got ... really crappy black commons. I paired it with blue because I like drawing cards... 1 x welkin turn 1 x research assistant 1 x bronze sable 1 x coral barrier 1 x frost lynx 1 x witches' familiar 1 x necromancers' assistant 1 x aeronaut tinker 1 x carrion crow 1 x chasm stalker 1 x amphin pathmage 1 x gravedigger 1 x indulgent tormentor 1 x nimbus of the isles 1 x soul of ravnica 1 x ulcerate 2 x tyrant's machine 1 x rogues' gloves 1 x military intelligence 1 x necrobite 1 x flesh to dust 1 x jace's ingenuity As you can see I was trying for cute synergies n' squids. For my last match I yolo'd it for zombie tribal: Removed all the blue, the machines, and the gloves. Added: 3 black cat 3 mind rot 2 undergrowth scavenger 1 netcaster spider 1 siege wurm 1 necromancer's stockpile (of course this did nothing even with like 7 zombies) 1 obelisk of urd FOIL (this was fun when it made two 5/3 necros) another necromancer's assistant another necrobite That managed to win my last match pretty easily but it was against some kid who wasn't very good. Even then he smashed me game 2 with indulgent tormentor. In general I thought both decks were OK, but just supremely dependent on drawing the 2 removal spells. The machines are fine once you get to like 7 mana... but before then they really jam up your options. I never really got to combo off with skulker but in one came I made a (bad) tactical decision to play flying beaters instead and ran to juggernaut/spider. Ooops. Soul of Ravnica did almost nothing besides eat a Juggernaut or get tapped by my opponents' machine... but I suspect that was more of just getting behind by the time I could play her. |
Author: | Phaseshifter [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
Nekomata-sensei wrote: Yeah, really powerful creatures at mythic rare in a set with minimal and overcosted removal sounds like a bad idea for a limited environment. And the souls for the most part are only good for limited. I'm starting to think that despite a few odd cool things in it thanks to design, M15 overall was badly managed by development. Current prices on the cards of the set don't help convince me otherwise, especially since the most expensive card in the set right now is Garruk, who isn't even likely to be constructed playable, and seems to be priced that way for kids looking for cool stuff. Your assessment is the same as mine. The format is bomby. Soul of Theros means you lose. And blue is even more of a support color than it already was. The artifact archetype seems weak, since most of the decent arttifacts are uncommon. I didn't see anyone actually try it. But yeah, removal is at a premium and a lot of stuff is hard or impossible to deal with in combat. |
Author: | rstnme [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
My main issue was going black and only opening three crippling blites and three fester glooms as removal. The format is bomby but there's decent removal when you can open it. |
Author: | Tevish Szat [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
Went 3-0 with a bombs.dec 11x Plains 6x Swamp 1x Caves of Koilos 1x Typhoid Rats 2x Oreskos Swiftclaw 2x Sungrace Pegasus 1x Warden of the Beyond 1x Necrogen Scudder 1x Paragon of New Dawns 1x Razorfoot Griffin 1x Zof Shade 1x Avacyn, Guardian Angel 1x Constricting Sliver 1x Soul of Theros 2x Soul of Innistrad 1x Resolute Archangel 1x Pillar of Light 2x Necrobite 1x Stab Wound 1x Triplicate Spirits 2x Covenant of Blood That's a full 5 total game-ending fatties (and being spoiled rotten with Mythics), a nice suite of removal (Covenant is easier to cast than it looks), and a good low end to apply pressure. I lost one game and would have won it had I remembered I had a Soul of Theros in my 'yard (discarded due to mana troubles in the early game). I don't think there's a single card in the deck I didn't see at least once (strange!) and only Typhoid Rats failed to perform -- and I know it's a good card, I just got it too late when I was doing paragon-fueled pegasus/swiftclaw/soul of innistrad beatdown. White, Black, and red seem really potent. Wile I didn't personally face anyone turning forests sideways, I understand that if the game gets into a grind, green can really power through by just continuing to play and maybe even grow potent threats. Blue... Blue I'm on the fence about. I was actually tempted to play blue instead of black because it had a mess of counterspells and some half decent fliers, but the removal/bomb package in my black was just too good. It's got good tempo avaliable and I do think that 4 mana counterspells (Statute of Denial) will be highly relevant in this format. Plus, flying and Other inevitability is pretty sweet. As to removal being too bad... Pillar of Light. I lived in fear of this card and cackled with glee to wield it myself. It's probably the best removal piece in the set despite its restriction, though Flesh to Dust (total unrestricted) and Devouring Light. The white ones even straight up deal with the Souls. For lesser cards there were surprisingly many options: Covenant, Stab Wound, Necrobite, Cone of Flame, Lightning Strike... these are all more or less acceptable removal. I especially got a ton of mileage out of Necrobite screwing with math. Pulled a Garruk in my prize and felt great about it (and a Hushwing Gryff too, but that's slightly less awesome) |
Author: | Hello World [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
Spoiler
And I thought that the guy with erebos,king makar,atreos and dawnbringer charioteers I faced in the JOU prelelease was lucky. |
Author: | Mesmerist [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
I went to a midnight release and ended up taking fourth at 3-1 with a fairly awkward list. I chose black for the promo. My pool had very little removal, and my rares were Chief Engineer, with no artifacts,Llanowar Wastes, In Garruk's Wake, Spirit Bond, Polymorphist's Jest and another Indulgent Tormentor. Creatures: 1x Fugitive Wizard 1x Typhoid Rats 1x Quickling 1x Welkin Tern 1x Chief Engineer 1x Child of Night 1x Jorubai Murk Lurker 1x Coral Barrier 1x Necrogen Scudder 1x Frost Lynx 1x Illusory Angel 1x Paragon of Gathering Mists 1x Amphin Pathmage 1x Accursed Spirit 2x Indulgent Tormentor Other Spells: 1x Crippling Blight 1x Void Snare 1x Negate 1x Military Intelligence 1x Sign in Blood 1x Eternal Thirst 1x Polymorphist's Jest Lands: 9x Island 8x Swamp The winners of the day for me were the tormentors of course but also Frost Lynx, Jorubai Murk Lurker, and Necrogen Scudder. The winner of my event had a crazy Red Green list with 2 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient, 2 Grindclocks and a toolbox of creatures with effects to deal with whatever he was playing against. Forge Devil sniped small fliers, Torch Fiend killed a few juggernauts, even saw him pull a Siege Dragon out to blow up a Wall of Frost and Wall of Essence. I enjoyed the set quite a bit, and feel like it's a step up from the last two core sets in the limited department. |
Author: | Dr_Demento [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
4-0-1 (ID in the last round) to tie for first, then went ahead and beat the other guy in a match for the last pack. 1*Forge Devil 2*Borderland Marauder 2*Generator Servant 1*Goblin Kaboomist 1*Child of the Night 2*Carrion Crow 1*Rummaging Goblin 1*Accursed SPirit 1*Juggernaut 1*Nightfire Giant 1*Indulgent Tormentor 1*Willforged Golem 1*Sign in Blood 1*Lightning Strike 2*Inferno Fist 2*Flesh to Dust 1*Endless Obedience 1*Caustic Tar 8*Mountain 8*Swamp 1*Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth So basically I was Black Goodstuff+Red 2 drops. Tormentor, Rummaging Goblin ,and Nightfire Giant were excellent as expected. Carrion Crow and Generator Servant both feel like they over performed for me, I got T2 Servant into T3 Hasty Tormentor in multiple games. I accidentally misplayed Inferno Fist once by enchanting it on my opponent's creature and killing it, because I can't read rules text apparently (and neither could my opponent). Caustic Tar and Accursed Spirit both felt disappointing to me, although I only drew each of them like twice. In Round 3, I kept an opener with 2 swamps and an Urborg. I ended up drawing into a couple more swamps and some red stuff, but my opponent was stuck only playing mountains. It got to turn 5 with neither of us playing anything but swamps and mountains respectively. I looked at my hand and I saw that I could play Urborg and Indulgent Tormentor or just pass the turn. I end up playing Urborg and Tormontor, hoping that my opponent isn't playing black. He is, but luckily his response is Carrion Crow and not Lighting Strike or Flest to Dust. It still felt real bad to have Urborg mana fix for my opponent and not me (I still end up winning the game, but I sideboard out Urborg for G2). In general I am happy with my deck, whenever I get the chance to play aggro in Sealed I take it, and my build meshed together really well. I feel like I would cut Urborg and Caustic Tar from my build and add either my second Endless Obedience or maybe the Shade. |
Author: | Cato [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
So, what cards overperformed for you guys, and what cards underperformed? |
Author: | rstnme [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
Rangers guile is a lot better, trip spirits is good. Accursed spirit is meh. Getting that dragon enchantment anthem feels terrible. Convoke is fun. |
Author: | Tevish Szat [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
Oreskos Swiftclaw is surprisingly lackluster. It usually just trades with another 1-2 drop and there are enough cheap critters that it seems likely your opponent will have a blocker. I mean, trading on par means it's still pulling its weight, but it's not as good as I thought it was. Necrogen Scudder is in pretty similar state as was, of all things, Soul of Innistrad: I think it might be the worst Soul for limited since deathtouch doesn't matter a whole lot on a 6/6 and its "fish your dead things back" ability can be good, but can also be hugely irrelevant when you've got Mr. 6/6 on the board, so your early beaters won't be worth a whole lot. It's still a big ol' mythic avatar, but if I somehow opened it alongside one of the others (Foil/nonfoil I guess?) in a draft, I'd probably take the other one. Again, these cards aren't bad, they just didn't quite live up to expectations. On the other hand, I was a little dubious about Covenant of Blood, Pillar of Light, and Constricting Sliver (with no other slivers). All three of them far outperformed my expectations: Covenant was decently easy to cast, Constricting's unrestricted removal and 3/3 body were worth the price, and if Pillar didn't have a target I was already winning. |
Author: | Zenbitz [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
I got nuked by T2 Generator Servant T3 Hording Dragon. Played against a couple Souls of Zendikar, those were bad. Phytotitan was a beating. It's basically "take 7 or sacrifice a creature" every turn. Undergrowth scavenger was very hit or miss. One game it rotted in my hand, another game it was a 7/7. I had a pretty hilarious sequence where I played T3 Mind Rot, he discards land + creature, plays T4 gravedigger I play T4 mind rot, he discards another land and another creature and plays ANOTHER gravedigger. Forge Devil is playable???? |
Author: | Dr_Demento [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
Zenbitz wrote: I got nuked by T2 Generator Servant T3 Hording Dragon. Played against a couple Souls of Zendikar, those were bad. Phytotitan was a beating. It's basically "take 7 or sacrifice a creature" every turn. Undergrowth scavenger was very hit or miss. One game it rotted in my hand, another game it was a 7/7. I had a pretty hilarious sequence where I played T3 Mind Rot, he discards land + creature, plays T4 gravedigger I play T4 mind rot, he discards another land and another creature and plays ANOTHER gravedigger. Forge Devil is playable???? Post-combat Forge Devil has always been fun! |
Author: | Cato [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
The secret to forge devil is that it isn't a creature, it's a removal spell that makes a token. |
Author: | Hakeem928 [ Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: M15 prerel experiences |
That Broodmother-thingy card was pretty insane; I played against a guy with three of them and a bunch of Hammerhands and Inferno Fists, as well as a pair of Cone of Flame. Yeah, Cone of Flame is pretty bonkers, too. |
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