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 Post subject: This draft format
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:23 pm 
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I am not getting it. Maybe I am just running cold but I think I am 1-8-1 in my last 10 matches. Almost all the match losses were 1-2. And I was doing so well in Theros...

Is this format actually more traditional and I am still drafting Theros in my head? White seems redonkulously good but it's so over drafted that I never see any. Black seems underdrafted but BNG is so bad I never end up there.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:11 pm 
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I thought about this some more and I think I play bad. I think a bunch of those matches had one really close game where I misplayed and lost. Plus I know at least 3 loose keeps (5 land, 2 land) that didn't work out. I didn't use to ever keep those, but maybe my constructed (standard) play is giving me an exaggerated consistency expectation.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:37 am 
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Preferred Pronoun Set: SE / squinty / squints
Any examples of your questionable plays?

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:44 pm 
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Well, other than the mulligans there are two huge gaffs that stand out. There are likely numerous other minor errors that I didn't even catch.

1) I have 6 mana; 1 land, Sea God's Revenge and Elspeth in hand. I am way behind on board facing a 3/2 flier among other things. I decide to bounce his guys, then next turn play elspeth. I draw a Hopeful Eidolon, and for some reason I play it as an irrelevant one drop before my elspeth. I go on to lose to his fliers, although it's very close. I think it is better to play elspeth, +1 her, then revenge. The really bad play was not saving the Eidolon to bestow on a token (literally did not occur me), that would have won me the game and the match.

2) I have 10 life, opp has 13. I have Thassa's Emissary, Centaur Battlemaster, and Nessian Asp. Opponent has Stoneshock Giant, Minotaur Skullcleaver, and Opaline Unicorn and another guy (possibly 2 unicorns?)
I don't have anything like a trick for battlemaster, but I have Sea God's Revenge, 2x Nylea's Disciple, and another card I forget what. I have 6 mana (perhaps 1 in hand) but not 7 for monstrous).
Opp. attacks, I tank and decide not to trade (correct!) go to 5. Opp plays stormbreath dragon Main 2 (probably a misplay on her part).
I play Sea Gods Revenge and bounce Dragon, Giant, and Minotaur. Totally forgetting 2/3 of them have haste I attack dropping her to 10, draw a card say GO. Then say "Oh, I just lost". I could have just pinged in for 3 and a card, use the Asp to hold down Dragon, gained some life with my 3/3s and try to play magic.


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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:34 am 
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Zenbitz wrote:
...Totally forgetting 2/3 of them have haste I attack dropping her to 10, draw a card say GO. Then say "Oh, I just lost". I could have just pinged in for 3 and a card, use the Asp to hold down Dragon, gained some life with my 3/3s and try to play magic.


I have a similar issue where if I think I smell blood I go on the attack. At least you're aware of it?

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:01 pm 
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The important thing is to think about the plays you made. There are moves I've been very proud of, which turned out to have been mistakes on watching the replay. Just because my opponent did not punish them does not make them right. That second example, you were going to lose anyway. But you could have played better, and in another game, it might have made the difference. Take the build where I played Rage of Purphuros over Sea God's Revenge: I looked at the deck while building it, trying to fit in the Revenge, and for some reason, did not see the obvious swap. I won the draft, but that doesn't mean the build was correct.

The attack too much thing is very easy for me to make too. That whole Who's the beatdown thingy can be tricky.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Thanks guys, *sniff*.

I think the biggest thing is the mulligans. I used to basically snap mull any 5 lander and almost any 2 lander (obvious aggro hand/deck exceptions)... In fact, I convinced myself that a 5 lander is essentially NEVER a keep (maybe in constructed control deck). At least when going to 6. Going to 5 you kinda have to hope for the best. I find most people I play with and even pros in vidoes make much looser keeps... and will defend it vigorously. One guy claimed that with his Draft Phenax deck his _6_ lander was a keep!

(basically the reason 5 landers are essentially auto-mulls is that even assuming you draw 2-3 playable spells in your first two draw steps... YOU CANNOT DRAW MORE THAN MAYBE 1-2 LAND THE WHOLE GAME. So you can draw out of it early game, be at parity or even winning then hit a small land pocket and flat out lose. Throw that back!)

But then I started keeping them! And losing.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:24 pm 
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I'll mull a 5-lander into a 1-lander into a 2-lander and not draw a land for the rest of the game. Then, later, I'll keep a 5-lander on some muddled, results-oriented thought process and draw 7 lands in a row. Then I'll be depressed I played someone who was so bad that it took them 7 timewalks to beat me.

Not to get all bobus, but variance can really suck sometimes.

{looksaroundexpectingUAorbobustoshowup}

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:07 pm 
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Another terrible deck:

2 Hopeful Eidolon
1 Loyal Pegasus
1 Artisan of Forms
1 Vaporkin
1 Oreskos Sun Guide
1 Cavalry Pegasus
1 Deepwater Hypnotist
1 Omenspeaker
1 Nyxborn Triton
1 Wingsteed Rider
1 Daxos of Meletis
1 Thassa’s Emissary
1 Floodtide Serpent
1 Sealock Monster

1 Triton Tactics
2 Glimpse the Sun God
2 Fate Foretold
1 Stratus Walk
1 Sudden Storm
1 Siren Song Lyre

// Sideboard
1 Leonine Snarecaster
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Revoke Existence
1 Evangel of Heliod

I mean, it almost has cards that almost do stuff and have little synergies but just no finish. I won a couple games off of Wingsteed Rider and Serpent combo... but deck mostly does nothing but lose very slowly (thanks to card draw and lifegain) Daxos got in once (FLYING even) and drew a plains. Mostly it got blanked by 2/3s and 2/1 flyers.

Guy to my right passed 2 Glimpse and got passed 2 phalanx leaders. That's just not right.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:04 am 
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Sometimes pack two can be pretty awful. I've definitely been in drafts where I aggressively cut my colors, only to find out the person two seats down passed the god-packs to the guy on my left. Fight on!

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:21 pm 
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I suggest you look at the latest GP finals report on the Mothership. It was draft, and the decks and comments are very interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:19 pm 
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You have a link... GP Richmond?

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Sorry, I'm tired today, and I got lazy. This. And of course, writing from memory is not a good idea: it's GP Montreal :(

Edit:The interesting parts, for me, are the question and answers with the finalists, and the finals match descriptions.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:26 pm 
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Thanks... I did try to look before I harassed you about it.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:49 am 
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I guess this could be in a thread titled "THAT" draft format because I drove 4 hours one way to Reno to play in a draft (OK I was going out that way anyway) and they ran BNG-BNG-THS. Which was odd. Also only 7 drafters.

P1P1 Fall of the Hammer
P1P2 Fall of the Hammer
P1P3 Fall of the Hammer

I followed this up with some green although the guy to my left was Bg and got all the trompers, and who passed me 2 hammers ended up WR heroic (?) I ended up with 3 Pharagax Giants (only played 2) and a wheeled time to feed to go with the hammers. And a sedge scorpion.

My Theros pack had something like: Griptide, Sea God's Revenge, Vaporkin and Triton Fortune Hunter... Sea God's Revenge wheeled (?!?!) and I took it but I ended up not splashing it (oddly no fixing at all). Once again I ended up hating a bunch of black cards in pack 3 (pick 6 Keepsake Gorgon? and pick 7 sip?).

Match 1 was pretty good but I won 2-0...second game thanks to a topdecked sideboard Setassan Starbreaker to kill his aqueous form. He had a new combo which was Kiora's Follower and Scourge of Skola Vale. I triple blocked his now blockable 5/5 hydra to 3 for 1 myself (kiora's follower was tapped and next turn he could have made an 8/8 assuming he played no cards)... and luckily he topdecked land and I didn't.

Match 2 I lost when I mulled to 5 in game 3 and ran into _triple_ nullify. Game 1 I won on a starting 9 of 3xFall, scorpion, time to feed and 4 land. Game 2 I couldn't beat his Sphinx's Disciple's card draw, after playing around nullify the whole game.

Match 3 was against super annoying magic player playing super annoying life gain durdle deck. Took me the whole 50 minutes to win 2 game, and probably should have lost the 2nd game due to unable to draw any removal or tramplers... he top decked a god's willing but didn't realize he could use it to deny my a block (I won with 1 life, hit 9 times by Decorated Griffin +1 incidental damage). A draw would have cost me 3rd place and a pack.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:26 pm 
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In my last 3 drafts I have gone

aggro
heroic
Mono black (okay I splashed for 2 blue cards but it's pretty much mono)

The point to this is that there are so many decks that can be drafted in BTT that there really is no need for a preconceived strategy. White is probably the best colour but any colour combination can work so just take the best cards. A lot of people say the format is fast and you should draft aggressive decks but slow grindy decks also win an equal amount of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Zenbitz wrote:


Just thought I would add my comments as I recently drafted a heroic deck.

Firstly, you seem to be playing 17 lands, which is way too many for this deck. It is certainly a 16 land deck and maybe even 15 (but I think 16 is right). I remember hearing a pro say that you want 16 land if you never want to draw a 6th land (which you don't).

Your deck itself looks fine but you definitely want Snarecaster in (great aggro card and a human for the Pegasus) and revoke existence (up to 2 main deck enchantment hate cards are absolutely fine in this format). I would drop the Siren and a land for these two cards. My only other comment would be that your deck is very aggressive and cards like Triton Tactics are okay in this sort of deck but not great. You really want to be looking for helix, aqueous form (probably the best enchantment for this type of deck) and ordeals. Also, Tactics aside, you have no combat tricks like Battlewise Valor or the awesome dauntless onslaught. Also, I don't like the monster it's not that great.

To me this looks like what I call a 1.5 deck (i.e. you are quite happy if you go 2-1 and slightly disappointed if you go 1-2) but I think with just a couple of tweaks of what you actually picked its a 2-1 deck and easily could achieve a 3-0.


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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:01 pm 
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Quote:
Firstly, you seem to be playing 17 lands, which is way too many for this deck. It is certainly a 16 land deck and maybe even 15 (but I think 16 is right). I remember hearing a pro say that you want 16 land if you never want to draw a 6th land (which you don't).


Well i am running 2 5 drops and a virtual 7 drop (bestow emissary), plus monsterous. I agree in general that UW heroic is very powerful, but I am missing lots of key cards.
The reason I played omenspeaker > snarecaster (For game 1 I actually played snarecaster) is that there are only 2 ways for this deck to win: Get a nut wingsteed rider draw or combo out on floodtide serpent. For the first the snarecaster is irrelvent and for the second the omenspeaker is much better.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:02 pm 
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Quote:
remember hearing a pro say that you want 16 land if you never want to draw a 6th land (which you don't).


That doesn't seem right.

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"Something that does not look good when your opponent does nothing is not a thing" -- me


Last edited by Zenbitz on Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This draft format
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:13 pm 
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The quote was in a recorded conversation between Owen Turtenwald (probably misspelt his name) and Huey Jensen. It's on their first joint draft video (I think) for Channel Fireball.

In relation to this deck, I don't think you are bestowing Thassa's Emisssary most of the time. I think most of the time you are just playing it as a hill giant that has to be blocked. That is where Aqueous Form or Stratus Walk become so powerful.


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