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M:O - Going in Cold
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Author:  squinty_eyes [ Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  M:O - Going in Cold
At DragonCon, I'll likely be spending a fair bit of time drafting Magic: Origins. So far, I haven't drafted it at all, haven't picked up a single pack, and really, have been kinda out of the loop of newer cards. What can you guys tell me about the new draft so I'm not going in completely cold on it?

~SE++
Author:  Zlehtnoba [ Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
Play two drops, CABS, just go basic. If you fall behind in the first few turns, you may never recover. Bodies with effects are good in this format; Yeva's Forcemage, Llanowar Empath, Separatist Voidmage, and so on. There are a few synergy-based decks, but for the first few drafts, it might be better to stay away from them.

Red is probably the best color, RW the best deck, but it's also heavily drafted. Green is deep, so it's hard to tell if it's being cut. If you see a chance to stay mono-color in pack one, it might be worth it. All color combos are draftable, with GB and BW needing some extra strong cards to be competitive. Play Caustic Caterpillar main deck; all colors have enchantments to blow up, and many decks play relevant artifacts. Don't go blue unless it's very open, since it's quite shallow, and fighting over blue is the best disaster recipe in Origins.
Author:  Zenbitz [ Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
Quote:
Play Caustic Caterpillar main deck;


This is really strange advice. It's not wretched in your opening hand, sure - and there are some nasty T2 dude T3 grasp/call/bloodlust draws, but I would just rather play a real guy or a real spell.
Author:  squinty_eyes [ Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
Thanks for the advice so far, but yeah, the Caterpillar seems and odd suggestion as the go-to card for a deck.

~SE++
Author:  Zlehtnoba [ Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
That is a quote from Reid Duke. He said that in his experience, it's never dead, and that after drafting the format for some time, he started maindecking it.
Author:  ajunior148 [ Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
Zlehtnoba wrote:
Play two drops, CABS, just go basic. If you fall behind in the first few turns, you may never recover. Bodies with effects are good in this format; Yeva's Forcemage, Llanowar Empath, Separatist Voidmage, and so on. There are a few synergy-based decks, but for the first few drafts, it might be better to stay away from them.

Red is probably the best color, RW the best deck, but it's also heavily drafted. Green is deep, so it's hard to tell if it's being cut. If you see a chance to stay mono-color in pack one, it might be worth it. All color combos are draftable, with GB and BW needing some extra strong cards to be competitive. Play Caustic Caterpillar main deck; all colors have enchantments to blow up, and many decks play relevant artifacts. Don't go blue unless it's very open, since it's quite shallow, and fighting over blue is the best disaster recipe in Origins.



Hard to disagree with any of this, very good advice.

I saw the Reid Duke draft, he did say that (for 1). It is very easy to agree with him. Every blue deck wants Claustrophobia, every white deck suppression bonds. I don't always main deck it but it isn't rare that I do.

The one thing I'd add is to not take the dual color uncommons early in P1 except for rare circumstances.

This format does love two drops.
Author:  squinty_eyes [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
ajunior148 wrote:
This format does love two drops.

I had heard about that somewhere before. What about archetypes to look out for or color pairings to avoid?

~SE++
Author:  POSValkir [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
I haven't done much playing with the cards, but Zieht's advice is pretty on point. A couple things I've noticed:

Thopter Engineer is gross, that thing is always a solid pick.
Stalwart Aven does some very nice things
Eyeblight Massacre is very often a dead card outside a dedicated Elf deck...if that deck exists.
Languish is pretty difficult to play appropriately.

Other than that, removal seems to be less straightforward in the set than in most and feels based on making educated trades rather than one card punches. Like Zeiht said...if you fall behind, it's hard to catch up.
Author:  ajunior148 [ Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
squinty_eyes wrote:
ajunior148 wrote:
This format does love two drops.

I had heard about that somewhere before. What about archetypes to look out for or color pairings to avoid?

~SE++


Off the top of my head to look for, red blue artifacts, black white enchantments (though really tough to pull off IMO), green black elves.

Honestly, google the dual uncommons and that should tell you I think.
Author:  Zenbitz [ Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
I think the best non-fancy deck is just RW beat down. Like 5-6 2 drops, 4-5 3s and a couple finishers. Grasp of the Hieromancer is actually quite good if you are on the beat down. The red aggro auras are a little more gambly. In both cases I probably take them out vs. blue.

W and R are the best colors, but not by a whole lot, and all color combinations are playable if they are open. U has some really good cards (especially uncommons) but is super shallow. G is deep, there are a lot of playable commons... but I have seen many (and drafted a few!) green decks that don't have enough 2s and they never get to play Rhox Maulers or 6/6 spiders and just die.

Black is a little shallow but solid.

I don't think any of the synergy decks are worth reaching for. The only one I have seen do well consistantly is Elves, and that's mostly because there are a whole lot of green (and a couple black) elves that are just solid aggro cards.

RU artifacts would be good except all the good R and U artifact cards go in any deck -- so it comes down to Chief of the Foundry (drafting it and drawing it at the right time.

The best uncommons golds I think are UW with fliers (because hey, fliers are good in limited), and RW (2/2 double striker) because even if someone is drafting all the red and white removal, you can pick 2 drops, combat tricks and enchantments and still kill them. You can even play 1 drops and war horn. Note that these aren't real synergy builds (except maybe warhorn.dec)

RB sacrifice is something of a "thing" but really it's just "Nantuko Husk is a really good magic card".
Author:  ajunior148 [ Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
^Better, more thorough advice than I gave.
Author:  squinty_eyes [ Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
ajunior148 wrote:
Honestly, google the dual uncommons and that should tell you I think.

Best guesses:

Blazing Hellhound - Sligh
Blood-Cursed Knight - Enchantments
Bounding Krasis - Control
Citadel Castellan - Midrange Combat
Iroas's Champion - Aggro
Possessed Skaab - Graveyard something or other
Reclusive Artificer - Artifacts
Shaman of the Pack - Elfball
Thunderclap Wyvern - Evasion Midrange
Zendikar Incarnate - Landfall / Ramp / Stompy

Zenbitz wrote:
Black is a little shallow but solid.

What do you mean by shallow?

~SE++
Author:  Zenbitz [ Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
Shallow = how many drafters the color can support in a pod.

More literally, I mean that there are fewer playable "plus" commons than R/W/G.
Black has:
Reave Soul
Shambling Ghoul
Unholy Hunger (that you cannot run huge numbers of)
Nantuko Husk
Fetid Imp

As good cards.

Eyeblight Assassin
Deadbridge Shaman
Weight of the Underworld

Are nothing special

Read the Bones is strangely niche in this set, but you will usually play the first one.

Huh, it's actually more subtle than I thought. R and W both also have about 10 playables at common, but they are generally better than the black ones. Blue has about _6_ and then you get to Screeching Skaab, 1/3s for 2, and 6/6 defenders for 6. (that maybe can attack eventually)

Green has about 13 reasonably solid commons - not even counting Aerial Volley or Caustic Caterpillar (Vastwood Gorger is 13th (Volcanic Rambler in red would be 11 or 12 with Act of Treason) but aside from Leaf Gilder and maybe the 1st Rhox Maulers they are just average in power.
Author:  squinty_eyes [ Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
Thanks for the information all!

I also caught a segment during the PAX Livestream where they discussed some of the card choices per draft strategy for the guilds in M:O, and I now have a much better understanding of what people have been talking about. I'm not great at drafting, but it is certainly the easiest and fastest way to begin playing at a Con, so I'm really looking forward to it.

~SE++
Author:  POSValkir [ Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
I've seen Macabre Waltz do some very nice stuff in the set too...the most annoying one was when they cast Woodland Bellower and snagged Managorger Hydra. I killed the Hydra with Wild Instincts then used Celestial Flare to kill the Bellower on their next turn. They bring back both with Waltz and discard a land :(

I've also seen it do some good work trading early game and working with token producers. Not sure if it makes it good, but it has some uses.
Author:  Zenbitz [ Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
Macabre Waltz is like a worse Tormenting Voice. I think Dark Dabbling is probably better, except in the exact Woodland Bellower case. Self mill just isn't well supported either in GB or UB, although with Evolutionary Leap....
Author:  squinty_eyes [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
I like the looks of Dark Dabbling. Last year I ran Necrobite and really cleaned house with it in my drafts.

Also, from what I hear, there should be no splashing. Stick to two colors firmly, is that right?

~SE++
Author:  POSValkir [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
I haven't gotten dabbling to work yet, but that's probably because I'm too concerned with "wasting" it on a little guy. The major difference between it and necrobite is that necrobite guarantees a trade. Dabbling is often just an expensive cycle that lets you get one more chump block in. "Delay the inevitable" comes to mind in this format...I like that Waltz can bring back four power and maybe remove that threat. I'd think of them as about equal, neither is really what you want but if you need a filler card they can both be of use...but I think Waltz has more oomph potential.

I haven't played much either, but the games I have played have been dominated by full boards and full yards, which has made me a bit more interested in getting back guaranteed bodies, especially with the amount of etb triggers in the set. Obviously its largely deck dependant, but there nothing quite like getting a bomb back when the opponent believes its been dealt with.
Author:  Zenbitz [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
I thought Dabbling was worthless then someone played 3 against me and made it hard to get into combat. The first one is a so what, as you say... but with spell mastery it's actually quite worrysome to attack into open mana.

He lost, but not because of dark dabbling - he just couldn't beat a flier.

We agree that Necrobite or Coat with Venom is better ... but Touch of Moonglove is not either of those.

As for board stalls with full grave yards... this is certainly the exception in this format. A big chunk of games just end with someone going 2-drop 3 -drop 4-drop then combat trick/removal (you can even skip the 4 drop). I would say maybe 1/3 of the games I played go like this.

Waltz I agree would be fine in the slow B vs. midrange G match or whatever, but I think it's a mediocre slot game 1. Too much tempo lost.
Author:  squinty_eyes [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M:O - Going in Cold
Heading up today, so time to put these tips to the test and see if I can pull off a decent draft. Wish me luck.

~SE++
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