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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:32 am 
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Devil, though this draft has gone down the tubes burning Picks 1 and 2 pack 2 on things that won't make the deck because they aren't splashable and won't have the support.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:47 am 
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Devil, though this draft has gone down the tubes burning Picks 1 and 2 pack 2 on things that won't make the deck because they aren't splashable and won't have the support.


I'm again amazed you don't like trip spirits. Can you explain why? It's hands down the most powerful common in the format.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:12 pm 
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rstnme wrote:
Devil, though this draft has gone down the tubes burning Picks 1 and 2 pack 2 on things that won't make the deck because they aren't splashable and won't have the support.


I'm again amazed you don't like trip spirits. Can you explain why? It's hands down the most powerful common in the format.


I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it doesn't appear his complaint is about the power level of the card, just the fact that it's double-white, and we only have a couple of white cards so he's assuming it's only going to be a splash, so he thinks TripSpir will be nearly uncastable. Which would be true, if we simply only splash white and were to run 3-5 plains. I think we're probably going to be RW with at least 7 plains and hopefully a couple of cheap white creatures to help convoke this in early. Either him or I could be wrong at this point. We may not see a Selfless Cathar or Kinsbale Skirmisher and their ilk the rest of the draft which will mean we wasted P2p1/p2. But if we do, then those picks become power picks.


Either way, we definitely did not want the guy to our right getting TWO Triplicate Spirits!!! He's already deep in White and those probably would have put his deck over the top. If we look at it in that light, even if we don't run white, they were not wasted picks.

Maybe we can convince Grevin to show us what the two people to our right drafted at the end of this exercise.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:32 pm 
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If that's his thinking then it's important to note you don't have a deck by p2p2. You have a small pile. It's very likely we'll get white playables this pack and the next, though admittedly I'd run spirits in a near-mono build anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:45 pm 
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You cannot pass triplicate spirits. We do need some white weenies though.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:31 pm 
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I did pass Spirits once p3p1 and p3p2. But I was firmly RU then. Pack two, it's another matter, especially if you are heavy into one color, and the other one is not yet clear. And it's not like we passed Lightning Strike or Cone of Flame. Our possible picks were a Mongrel, a Tern, a Lynx, and a Revoker. And we're mono-red, but for that Scudder. So, I hope we will end up with a solid RW deck.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:55 pm 
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You're never firmly mono color after 1 pack. We took the best card that was reasonable to cast both times. Chord of the calling we pass, possibly the queen too. But everything else should have been in play.


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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:02 pm 
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rstnme wrote:
Devil, though this draft has gone down the tubes burning Picks 1 and 2 pack 2 on things that won't make the deck because they aren't splashable and won't have the support.


I'm again amazed you don't like trip spirits. Can you explain why? It's hands down the most powerful common in the format.

It's not bad, but I do think it's kind of overrated. In the right deck, Trip Spirits can be a blowout, but you need a decent amount of support to make it work. Certainly, it's the kind of card I'd expect to be an uncommon due to its power level, but that doesn't mean it's the best for every deck

The raw "What you get" is 3 flying power for 6 mana. That's a little weaker than Nimbus of the Isles (a good, but not great card), but it's got Convoke so we can forgive the cost a bit. In isolation, I'd probably put the two cards roughly on par except for the fact where Nimbus has a less heavy color requirement (which still matters with Convoke).

The simultaneous greatest strength and biggest weakness of Triplicate spirits is that, unlike Nimbus of the Isles, it gives you that 3 power in three bodies. It's therefore a "creature" that's resistant to removal, but matches up poorly against other creatures: Nimbus (my baseline for this comparison, it seems) trades with Trip Spirits on the offense like it would with a clone of itself, but slowly wins if the spirits try to get aggressive. They've got the ability to chump 3 times so maybe they're a little better blocking but they're a lot worse attacking.

Where Trip Spirits shines is when you can reasonably expect to support it: compared to a single body creature, it reaps triple the benefits from its appropriate Paragon or other global buffs (permanent or temporary), and it feeds convoke really well (ramping nicely into Seraph of the Masses or letting you cast more spells every turn if your convoke tricks are somewhat cheaper). It's a solid card for a solid strategy, but it's not a solo game-winner that's worth taking when you
a) Have options with a greater synergy and potential for synergy
b) Have no real expectation of being able to pick up a critical mass of convoke or global buffs

Mongrel/Tern/Lynx/Revoker would have been better for us in our situation, because those are cards that we can get playing at their best, that wouldn't be sitting dead in our hand or squandered fruitlessly. When we've got the building blocks of a solid build that works with itself and might even curve nicely and we pass them for a card we need a decent devotion to a color we don't have a single pick of in order to play, I get a little miffed. It doesn't help that the color we're in all the way is red and red has TERRIBLE synergy with white in M15

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:10 pm 
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Zlehtnoba wrote:
I did pass Spirits once p3p1 and p3p2. But I was firmly RU then. Pack two, it's another matter, especially if you are heavy into one color, and the other one is not yet clear. And it's not like we passed Lightning Strike or Cone of Flame. Our possible picks were a Mongrel, a Tern, a Lynx, and a Revoker. And we're mono-red, but for that Scudder. So, I hope we will end up with a solid RW deck.


Yeah, I don't mean NEVER... I just meant that it should be avoided if at all possible.
I also feel much better passing one to the right in pack 2 and one to the left in pack 3, which happened to me once.

My experience with trip spirits is that it's pretty bad against green if you don't have stuff to deal with 4/4s. I don't see why someone would say R and W don't have synergy. White has convoke. Red has little pikers. Synergy! They are both pretty aggro as well.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:42 am 
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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:44 am 
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That Obelisk of Urd is a beast in a deck running a ton of Goblins or spirits, which we are. And it turns on our mongrel, easy pick for me.


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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:01 am 
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Obelisk. I'd whine more, but I don't think there's really a better pick.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:02 am 
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SLAM THAT OBELISK OMG WE JUST WON THE DRAFT

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:54 am 
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Yeah, Urd it is.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:19 am 
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I wouldn't say 4 goblins is a ton but it does work well with the Kaboomist. We could just as easily name Spirit and fly in for the win late game.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:17 pm 
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yeah I think Obelisk is way overrated but I also think it's the pick here. the next best card for us is Giant and we don't want two.

:duel:

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:19 pm 
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The only question about this pick is if we're going to name goblin or spirit more often. Obelisk.

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:54 am 
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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:58 am 
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Scrapyard Mongrel?

You know white's the best colour in M15 when...

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 Post subject: Re: M15 draft 4!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:24 am 
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Mongrel yeah

Oh wait hell no foundry street denizen all the way

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