It is currently Sat Nov 30, 2024 11:51 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:50 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec 07, 2013
Posts: 3433
Prey Upon is simply bad in this format. The only time it comes close to working is if they have a creature dressed with Wolfkin Bond. Or if they play another color which actually has big creatures, like the red five-drop.

I'm not impressed with the mana wolf because I want to win games before it flips, and it usually can't block my attackers and live. Primal Druid can, at least for a few turns. And then it accelerates/fixes your mana.

A case in point: Opponent had a 3/2 in play. They put Wolfkin Bond on it, and played Prey Upon targeting their new 5/4 and my Pious Evangel. I flipped the Evangel and then played Strength of Arms on it, making it a 4/6. They had to tap their critter to make mana with Cryptolith Rite to use Borrowed Grace to give their critters +0/+2 to avoid getting blown out. Using their tricks this way, gaining no advantage, made me win the game quite comfortably.

TL;DR: be very careful using Prey Upon, or you just might lose the game on the spot. The safest is probably after you flip a Werewolf, if you are still alive then :)

Oh, and that's probably why the pros value Make Mischief.A lot of the top players draft aggressive decks, with one-toughness creatures, and there Make Mischief shines. So maining it at the GP is probably a metagame call.

Anyway, the format is young, and I expect it to change quite a bit in the following weeks, as the control players find combinations that work.

_________________
Go draft, young man, go draft!


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:16 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 7260
Primal Druid? I guess it's good with emerge. I didn't even think it was playable. I think captive is about as good as prey upon and survivalists. I think bloodbriar is a little worse.

_________________
"Everything looks good when your opponent passes 4 turns in a row" -- rstnme
"Something that does not look good when your opponent does nothing is not a thing" -- me


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:44 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec 07, 2013
Posts: 3433
I've seen Captive do good things, mostly against me, in werewolf decks. And it's definitely very good in sealed. I've yet to see Prey Upon do something on its own, without the creature getting enhanced by another spell beforehand. The two uncommon green "removal" spells are very good, but the common one is mediocre.

_________________
Go draft, young man, go draft!


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:14 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 7260
I think prey upon is good in UG and decent in RG. There are a lot of contradictory opinions on this format. Only thing I am sure about is that Red is great.

_________________
"Everything looks good when your opponent passes 4 turns in a row" -- rstnme
"Something that does not look good when your opponent does nothing is not a thing" -- me


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:03 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 08, 2014
Posts: 4662
Location: Depends on the Day
Zlehtnoba wrote:
A case in point: Opponent had a 3/2 in play. They put Wolfkin Bond on it, and played Prey Upon targeting their new 5/4 and my Pious Evangel. I flipped the Evangel and then played Strength of Arms on it, making it a 4/6. They had to tap their critter to make mana with Cryptolith Rite to use Borrowed Grace to give their critters +0/+2 to avoid getting blown out. Using their tricks this way, gaining no advantage, made me win the game quite comfortably.

Nothing about this scenario makes sense...I don't think "my opponent made bad choices" is a valid argument for why a card is bad :P. Was your Evangel really that much of a threat? Why not just attack into it...then its the same scenario except they don't have to use Prey Upon...they could have waited until next turn and it seems it would have been profitable (assuming you couldn't double block to threaten and then pump with Strength...although honestly, playing around combat tricks is pretty basic stuff)

As for everything else...yeah, red is great. It's a weird format...I seem to either get garbage, or get great decks there is nothing in between. I suspect the problem is that too many cards are good in too many decks.

Prey has been very good for me, mainly in taking out annoying fliers, but also just in general. It's a one mana removal spell, I don't think it can be bad, but it certainly isn't a slam and win card.

Captive has always been awesome when I've played with or against it. Ramping and then turning into a threat late game. It stops annoying Skulk creatures too, which is ever so rarely a boon in a stalled board which would otherwise see the skulker walking to the win. With so much removal it's just another creature that can close out a game if the opponent has killed everything else.

Primal Druid has been great for me. Occasionally wearing some equipment or an aura, but mainly it is awesome if you hit an unexpected mana screw. Its also good with Emerge and a cheap blocker against their early threats which has mattered in a few games. That said...I've never actually picked it...it just ended up in my deck if I had it. I have been curious about picking it a bit more highly and going for a base green multi-color threat deck.

_________________
"I love you like Kanye love Kanye" - Dan Rawdon


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:49 am 
Offline
Conqueror of Eldangard
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 14140
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
Just had my first EMN draft tonight and I was quite unprepared for the format. I expected a lot more trading of blows between small creatures and loaded my deck with decently statted 2 and three drops that didn't manage to outmuscle anything. Graf Rats mostly chumped when it blocked. Ingenious Skaab was not the all-star I expected. I simply stared at the Biting Rain in my hand for whole games, unable to kill anything with it. The critters are all pretty hearty. The lack of dying also undermined my undead cards. It seems like a good format though. Even though I lost both my matches (third round was a bye) I had fun.

Were my experiences representative of the format? Both my opponents played green, so that might have skewed things a bit.

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:23 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 08, 2014
Posts: 4662
Location: Depends on the Day
Yeah, and that's what I mean by "garbage or great"...your typical Hill Giant type card is almost meaningless in this format and your Bears/Pikers are somewhat useless too. Although Ingenious Skaab is a friggin all star common. Prowess is what makes it so though, so in the wrong deck its basically just a 4 damage removal spell for a ton of mana. This format has a lot of high toughness road blocks that are hard to get around and a TON of combat tricks that mess up your own plans with your little dudes.

_________________
"I love you like Kanye love Kanye" - Dan Rawdon


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:02 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 29, 2014
Posts: 309
good players know when to play Prey upon,
a 1 mana kill spell when your opp is tapping out up until turn 5 or 6, OR losing plenty of tempo to keep a 1 mana trick up for a card they don't know if you even have in hand.
i was passed prey upon's in my last draft I read the signal and moved in, went to the finals. thanks to cards like prey upon letting me play a creature and removal on the same turn in the early game. Good stuff

And if you really are scared of the blow out, set up the board state where you give you opp the opportunity to 1 for 1 his pump spell trick with you in combat to free up your prey upon green doom blade

_________________
Thurgood Jenkins


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:03 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec 07, 2013
Posts: 3433
Ingenious Skaab is great since it kills the 0/3, 0/4 and 1/4 roadblocks decks play just by pumping. This is something blue decks have been missing for a long time.

As for the example you cite, Valkir: the point was that the opponent was green, and had no creatures that were able to fight my Evangel and live naturally. They had to use a pump aura, and even then it didn't work.

As for the threat question: they died a few turns later when I attacked with three creatures, they were at three life, and they were unable to block without trading, which meant they die if they don't block, and they die to the flipped Evangel triggers if the block and trade. So yes, on that board, they were correct to try and kill the Evangel, they were able to trade with the rest of my creatures.

Johhny: Prey upon is not bad, it's just not great. It requires setup, and a bit of finesse, as you said.

_________________
Go draft, young man, go draft!


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:00 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 08, 2014
Posts: 4662
Location: Depends on the Day
Well that makes a bit more sense at least, but that's an issue in the format in general. It seems high toughness trumps high power thanks to a wealth of combat tricks. You're opponent having a 3/2 is a worse sign than them having a 2/3 (not for every deck, but just generally I've found 3/2s losing to combat tricks easier than 2/3s)

Again, any card is "bad" when you are desperately behind on the board. Sometimes, not even Elspeth, Sun's Champion can save you. That doesn't mean Elspeth needs a bit of finesse...it probably means you paired up unfavorably, drew unfavorably, drafted poorly, or chose to keep a poor opening hand.

Prey gets out-shined by Rabid Bite, and Clear Shot is the greatest thing since sliced bread...but 1 mana removal is still great. I will agree that it isn't a terribly high pick though. Mainly because red has so much burn and white has so many removal options (like the auras or the Silverstrikes) that you're probably safe prioritizing direct removal or creatures and picking up combat tricks/rabid bites from pack three. But in U/G or B/G its still a pretty high pick since you don't have as many options in pack 3 if someone else is in green.

_________________
"I love you like Kanye love Kanye" - Dan Rawdon


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group