If no one steps forwards that theoretically means either: A: He is cult leader or B: He is the Record Keeper. He's already effectively made that dichotomy known to scum (if his information is correct).

You're right that there's the possibility that Zinger is just playing bold. But if his information is correct, scum will know that he's almost certainly not just being bold. If his information is incorrect, he's just going to make himself look scummy. It's a lose-lose situation for town.

I suppose there is always the possibility that Zinger is just bad at making decisions, but I prefer to assume that people are playing at least slightly logically.

I think a non-assassin spy makes no sense. Not only would the cult leader immediately catch him, but the record keeper would also be able to identify him as scum without a single cue having to be made by the leader. All it does is make the game easier for town if he's a vanilla scum.

That's a fair opinion; the more I think about it, the more likely it is that Zinger's just playing the game poorly, but I hate the idea of letting someone get away with doing something so blatantly anti-town as claiming to know who is town and who isn't.



I think the way you're playing the game is very dumb and anti-town. So that makes us even, I guess.



I already said for them not to do it. I just wanted to discuss the idea of doing it.

Tevish: Would you mind unofficially saying what team you think you'd be likely to propose if this one fails to pass?

Normally I'd just turn this one down immediately because it doesn't have me on it and it's day one, but I feel like there's more to work with today than most day ones.

I feel it's not in the resistance's best interests to provide a definitive speculative team at this time.

This is because I feel it's in the resistance's best interest to accept Zinger's team at this time, as it is the first team to leave out high-risk individuals from the team 1 debacle.

I feel like, at this stage, we gain most from running this mission. And, at the risk of creating an unexpected execution paradox, I say that I really don't like the idea of going to a fifth team on the day because as we've seen, three 'yes' votes and an abstention to three 'no' votes does not approve a team, which means that scum could win a premature victory due to town inactivity on the fifth vote.

And if it tanks? Well, we've bandied about for a long time that we get more than standard info out of the 2-man failing.



And unless I've totally misunderstood the rules of this game, this makes no sense at all.

You could just say "the team I would propose is the same team Zinger is proposing" and we can leave it at that.

Otherwise, I'd rather see a team without Zinger unless we can establish that he's not the assassin (a team with any combination of you, squinty, and me sounds a lot better than a team with Zinger).



The Cult Leader already knows the identity of all vanilla scum, so they'd be able to see through it.

The Record Keeper could infer the identity of the vanilla scum if they started acting like they were the Cult Leader or Record Keeper because the Record Keeper already knows the real Cult Leader and that they are the Record Keeper.

Does that make sense?

This is true, but useless, since the cult leader can't afford to tip his/her hand


This is equally true of ANYONE bluffing Informed Townie. Since the Record Keeper knows both Informed Townies, anyone else -- vanilla spy, assassin, or town that's either decisive or trying to throw scum off the scent -- playing as though informed could be inferred as such by the Record Keeper

Cult leader can afford to use that information subtlety, though.

If you bluff informed townie in most situations, you're more likely to do harm than good.

If you guess wrong, you're hurting town by misleading fellow townies. Scum can also use that to narrow down that you're not actually informed (unless you do a bunch of WIFOM). If you guess right by some miracle, it might draw some attention from the assassin, but it will also probably fool the cult leader into thinking you're the record keeper and make the record keeper suspect you to be an assassin.

I may not really know resistance, but I know the dynamics of Mafia. Wifom is great, and if you've got solid reads with good logic, following them hard and drawing a hit away from the REAL cop is a good play. It seems reasonable enough.

And I am still 100% unconvinced that a vanilla scum couldn't bluff informed to mess with the uninformed. They're no worse off from the cult leader than they were before and the assassin would risk outing himself to the record keeper to act that way, when the assassin is the only one who nobody has dirt on. I feel like the play as assassin would be to lurk to victory, watch and read, while the compromised regular spies try to raise hell, grab townpants, and get on missions.

Again, vanilla scum is already known by the cult leader and the record keeper would be able to identify that they're bluffing. They could maybe throw off vanilla townies, sure, but it still gives away his role directly to the record keeper and might not work against townies considering that there's another record keeper that can set things straight.

Look, if you think Zinger being vanilla scum is a reasonable possibility, power to you. From where I'm looking, I see either a town power role or an assassin (or someone who is just plain misplaying).

I think you missed the most obvious option. He's town, not any of the roles, and trying to make himself look like one of the roles to pull attention off of whomever is the leader or record keeper.

Either way, I'm going to vote yes - even if he is scum, I doubt he would fail this mission, as it would kill his plan.

We have special guns. Our guns shoot FISTS, so we can bunch Bears from a distance!

Pro-Tip guys, Zinger is the best and you should trust him.

Also, Rubik, if you are town you are horribly tipping your hand to the scum team, and if you're scum, well, just keep doing what you're doing I guess. But I don't think you're scum, so... Why?

Hey, lookit that, I actually have a reputation for being bold and decisive around these parts. Isn't that cute. Dawww, I'm making friends.

Let's look at options. Zinger is...
• Cult leader, probably trying to WIFOM, either by being too obvious, or trying to incorrectly brandish a town team.
• Keeper of Records, I don't think this viewpoint differs from a regular BP.
• Bear Puncher, gambling on looking like a Cult leader.
• Nihilist, either trying to control the game by looking like Cult leader (sounds like a sketchy tactic), aiming for KoR to claim he isn't, or maybe something else.
I don't know. I can't really find a good rationale for doing it as any role, it just seems like an at best non-value move. Zinger's response to it, however, is abysmal, and I can't in good faith support anyone that tries to silence discussion.

The odds of him successfully doing so is extremely low, though. If his results are incorrect (which he is like 90%+ guaranteed to be, unless he's a power role), all he achieves is drawing attention away from himself on the assassination (which is bad as vanilla town) and hurting town's odds of hitting scum.


Right back at ya.

y'all should vote I only have 4 and you're at about a day left.

Seriously. Vote. And personally I urge you to vote up this team, because Zinger and Squinty are not Mown, Neo, or Rag, and therefore this team is a good day 1 team

Honestly, that was my first thought when I saw his plays.

~SE++

Of course, he could be scum.

Or the Cult Leader playing heavy WiFoM games early to throw off the scent.

Or the Keeper of Records.

Or anything.

Unlike, I feel, Rag's initial play, Zingers actions are equally valid (or invalid, as the case may be) for any role assigned to the game.

Therefore, I feel him no more likely than any other player in the latter 4 to be scum.

Therefore, I am comfortable with this team.

Not that I care to dignify your scum mudslinging with a response, but for the onlookers who take what you've said at face-value I want to be perfectly clear: I am not shutting down discussion, I am shutting down a topic of discussion proposed by Rubik that is decidedly anti-town. Should we speculate and try to come to a positive conclusion on what my role might be? Should we draw others out of hiding to support that speculation one way or the other? Absolutely not, nor should we even discuss it lest someone's actual role info is let slip even accidentally as a result of those discussions.

Now, a VALID discussion might be to speculate on my alignment, but I seeing significantly more speculation on what my role might be than what my alignment might be.

So you're not shutting down discussion, you're shutting down a topic of discussion?
Oookay, that makes a world of difference.

It's difficult to draw accurate conclusions if you don't consider the different factors that plays into a move, so of course discussion is going to involve roles. It's also contingent to finding out whether or not Rubik's train of thought is valid, which I'm not entirely against, but I think his premise his flawed.

In my previous writeup, I forgot that a Nihilist could be aiming to look like regular BP trying to look like a Commander, which seems to me the most plausible motivation. But well, that is theoretically only as viable as masquerading as a Commander would be for a BP, so I'm undermining my point here by saying that I don't think it's a good idea as a BP to do so.

5 votes in, 6 hours left