Mafia qt: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/SwNxXEhzZ3x/p-1.16.0.

Link to dead qt?

What did the psychic and the mobber do?

Neo was vanilla?

I hope I haven't frustrated you too much squinty, after you started to self vote I couldn't really find a way to back up without hindering my team, if you want to play in the next game, what if we play together with a single account? Having someone to talk to could make the game less frustrating and I haven't got enough time to play in the next one alone.
I thought about having you nightkilled or something similar, but then you stopped selfvoting and I was thinking that you managed to vent the frustration somehow.

I think the general premisis of the game was fine, but like I implied a few months back, we should start here with more basic games with laid-out roles and stuff. We're still easing people into playing Mafia after all.

The mobber was a vigilante variant. I could choose to ask up to 2 people to join me each night to mob a target.
Those people would get a PM 'Rumor has it that TARGET is going to be mobbed tonight. Would you like to join in and help kill TARGET? (You will be considering targeting and will be able to be tracked.)'
Those people could say yes/no and affect the chance the kill would be succesful.

I could be tracked, but would only be tracked to the guy I would try to kill.

----------
Anyway, I'm considering asking Scarlet to host a basic game soon.
In the opening post will be a list of possible roles in that game and their descriptions.

Bring out your dead!

So I had it right (once Van died). Mafia were Van, Confused, and HW?

I have doctor questions - theory more than this game in particular - but no time to write it up at the moment. So a summary question: How should doctor (or any power role really) choose targets? First night is almost entirely random, I guess. But beyond that, I probably should've been able to do a better job. The only time I got the target right, I was roleblocked and the target (Planeshaper) died.

Also, with the game over: what's a "mobber" - the role JaC had? And exactly how did charismatic work this game? Because there was one spot that didn't look like lylo when numbers' vote only counted as one.

Old dead qt?

Yes, me,Confused as usual and van.

Basically our N3 kill was because DK just called all of us out.

Fire was because I wanted the doctor dead.

I think I proposed shock to not let anyone with new ideas enter the game.

Didn't I say something about everyone every day after d1?

I agree with 15337, bad town game overall. A lot of finger-pointing back and forth for what essentially amounted to, "you called me scum and I am town so you must be scum!" Squinty throwing in the towel was also pretty detrimental to towns chances. Top it off by one of the better players and a power role getting killed N1 and it was an uphill battle the whole game.

I was on to Confused pretty hard and had an inkling on Van as my pre-death post implied. Mafia did good to take me out there and Town got pretty lucky with the Van modkill. I should have trust my gut on Day 2 when I said something along the lines of, "Hello World has seemed town to me and I ALWAYS think he is scum as town, so he's probably scum." Good job Town hitting Confused after the Van modkill though.

@Fire - There is no rule for how Dr. should choose targets. In general protect the people that look the most town or hint at/claim power roles.
The Mobber role is explained in the post above you.

Oh, I didn't think there were rules about doctor. Just advice. (In hindsight, I should've been all over protecting JaC early; once he died, it was an obvious mafia play to me given that he gets stronger as a game goes along.)

And yeah, the mobber post wasn't there while I was typing. Or if it was I didn't notice it.

I'm not sure what else there is to say....I had fun, feel like I learned quite a bit, and am looking forward to playing again....

In all honesty, I was frustrated. But frustrated.... in-game, if that makes sense. And to be fair, you played it very well. I think I was more frustrated that everyone was seeing you as town when I was pretty convinced you were mafia since you weren't looking other places. As people said, town sucked in this game, and I was a large part of that, which I was well aware of. And for the record, the self vote was trying to get myself lynched so that people would look at your posts in a new light and try to check you out with nightroles and eventually lynch, but town didn't wanna go for it. Oh well.

~SE++

Oh yeah, squinty, I was supposed to tell you that Hello World was sorry, but you didn't die.
He knew what he was doing, but it was a strategy nontheless.

I found it amusing that Fire targeted a mafia member almost every night. If he was a cop, this game would have been VERY different.
I also found it amusing that Hello World was a power role and had no idea. More on that in a minute...
So here are the thingymajigs...
MAFIA:
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/SwNxXEhzZ3x

DEAD:
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/Tt2QT3CsxD8W

Here was my role composition...
01 - GobO_Fire - *Gideon* - T Doctor
02 - Dragoon Kain - Elspeth - T vanilla
03 - 15733 - Jace - T Charisma
04 - Just_a_cleric - *Ajani* - T Mobber
05 - squinty_eyes - Ashiok - T Vanilla
06 - PlaneShaper - *Chandra* - T Psychic
** - Confused - *Tamiyo* - M Blocker
** - Hello World - Garruk - M Bargainer
09 - tony3 - Venser - T Vanilla
10 - miss_bun - Tibalt - T Vanilla
11 - Shockwave07 - Liliana - T Vanilla
** - Van - *Sorin* - M Tracker
13 - NeoSilk - Koth - T Vanilla

Roles I wanted -
14 - M Vanilla (Vanilla)
15 - T Bomber (If targeted at night kills self and anyone who targeted him; this ability excludes the psychic)

In short, I set the town up very strong for a 15 player game. The town tracker was untrackable and wouldn't trigger the bomber.
The doctor and mobber could, which could provide VERY swingy games, but I liked how the town tracking role was safe.

The mobber was explained. JaC could choose a target, and then pick two people. They would know who the target was, but not who wanted him dead. There were different outcomes depending on their responses.
(This part JaC didn't know. He knew there could be consequences, but not what and not how.)
If both said yes, JaC successfully killed the target during the mob.
If only one said yes, nothing happens but there is a flavor post about unrest during the night.
If both said no, JaC would die during the mob.
Also IF there was a mob JaC and anybody saying yes, woudl be considered targeting the target. This would mean more fun with trackers and a possibly devastating combo with the bomber (a 4 for 1) That's also the reason i took out the bomber when I found out it wouldn't be a 15 player game.

The Mafia - Bargainer
This person was told they were vanilla. BUT, if this person was lynched I would reveal to him his true role and offer him a choice. He can choose to reveal the identity of another living mafia member in exchange for his life. So instead of a lynch you'd get the names of two mafia members (it isn't really key except for when it nears lylo). Also, he'd turn to Garruk the Veil-Cursed. This was the ONLY role that was determined by planeswalker choice for that reason.

General comments about the game:
I can't believe that EVERY DAY the town went to the last minute. If I had know that I wouldn't have hosted I was honestly expect to get a few hours to work with each round, but that was not the case. Plus, I apologize for the two snowstorms. Thank you very much Freddeh for taking over in those cases.

I also can't believe how little town was able to work together. Everyone had their own agenda, and nobody was really willing to listen to others. I'm still really mad at the mafia for both killing the Mobber AND for double killing Shockwave07. That was mean

And as a mod it was disappointing at the end when the game was almost handed to town because of a modkill. My last mafia was going to go away and wanted a replacement. I didn't mind replacing someone on Day Two, but I honestly couldn't think of a reasonable way to deal with it Day Five, and I'm sorry Hello World. It wouldn't be fair to anyone in the game, because of how late it was in the game.

This doesn't mean anything to me. What would this have meant?

And assuming people have a team-oriented goal (Ha! In this game? Ha!), when would it be beneficial for the bargainer to give up his teammate? Because I'm not (off the top of my head) seeing how that's a good deal. (Of course, I guess that's the point, right? A bad teammate gets to live another day?)

Garruk Relentless // Garruk, the Veil-Cursed is the (so far) only double-sided planeswalker card from MTG. It felt fitting to have a role with a semi-dual purpose to be represented by a similar planeswalker.


Honestly, I don't know. It was an experimental role and I wanted to see how it worked. I had situations in my head where this kind of role would be important, months ago. They are all fleeting me at the moment.

It gives mafia an extra day with the almost lynched person. Now, this normally ISN'T good because now two mafia will be lynched one right after the other, BUT that extra day can give the remaining members the ability to distance themselves in certain circumstances.

I originally designed it to be a trump card for mafia during lylo; but freddeh didn't like that (so I took that part out). For example:

4 town
3 mafia

If the lynch the bargainer the next day is

3 town
3 mafia (with two identities known, but is still mafia win)

Snowstorms OP.

Old dead QT: http://quicktopic.com/50/H/qHpykmBQ8NWc

It was a fairly interesting game to watch, but town was on its way to getting skunked until Van got modkilled .

I was trying to tone down the roles without losing the full vision of Alts game, as I did like some of the ideas. I missed the part where it was supposed to be really basic or I would have tried to tone it down more, but I figured those roles would be fun enough without being too complicated so I let it slide (with tweaks, as Alt already mentioned).

One thing that could be fun could be all made up roles. That way everyone is on the same page.

It would take a lot of time to balance it though.

In relation to the dead...

@Ari, your play the first day and a half of this game was not even comparable to your play the rest of the game. You trying to insist otherwise is just pointless. As I pointed out while the game was going on, stopping doing something that's getting you called out for doesn't excuse the behavior, nor should it just be immediately forgotten. This is clearly why SE didn't replace out when he was given the option. By then he had already wet the bed and replacing out would have done nothing but give his replacement a massive headache to start the game with. With that said you had the option to start playing like you did later in the game at the beginning of day 2 and I wouldn't have pursued you, as I said in thread. But you decided that doing your own thing was better than putting the town ahead of you, so I don't know why you're acting like your excrement smells like roses.

On the subject of PS, clarifying his role would have been irrelevant. As was apparent from what I posted after his death, I was leaning investigative variant but with quirks. By not straight up claiming what he was and his quirks he invited discredit on his death seeing as how he was told what his role name was and should have expected to flip as that and not tracker. The point of my post was that we would not be able to garner what was full truth and what was half truth at that point. Lies of omission are still lies, and this was a prime example of a situation in which town should not lie. Especially given his quirk pretty much told the game there was a second tracker.

On modding...

@Fred, I was going to point out earlier that SE's lynch spelled the end of the game either way but you already called for no talking. It would have been easier and less revealing to just say "Assume there was no lynch. Send in your targets."

@Alt, you should really stay consistent. Discounting DK's vote earlier in the game set the standard for no leeway. With that said I don't think the outcome would have been changed, Neo probably would have eventually voted SE with HW's auto hammer in tow. So I'd say no harm no foul, just something to keep in mind. Other than that a well hosted game. It was fairly timely (sometimes that's just out of your control though, I've hosted games through hurricanes so I can relate) and featured some fresh ideas on old roles. Thanks for hosting.

I'd love to say that I would have changed to HW on the final day, but...that would not be true. I think it's pretty clear that, if there had been a no lynch, and numbers got killed at night, I would have voted for SE and ended the game that way.

Even though I identified Confused and HW, got validation after Confused was lynched, and got further validation after I was night killed. I mean really, once Van was mod killed I put all the pieces there to see.

Thanks for the feedback, and I definitely agree.
My reasoning for ending it...

But again, thanks for the feedback and I do agree with you. That day should have ended in a no lynch.

Cheeky snark aside, I was personally happy that once I got a clue (yeah, Van's death was a big one) I was able to place the other pieces into the puzzle. One thing that was really bugging me was my inability to get anything right - protected wrong targets, lynched town (sorry, Bun!), etc.

Still not sure why I got so pissed off at Neo and PS...

Next game I play will absolutely not be in my mod account though. That wasn't fair...

That's cool if you see it that way. Good job.

Wow...

I was questioning two of the three scum team Day 2... But I didn't lock onto one and only was focusing on the other based on what I thought was a mason tell. Then I die again. Do find the flavor behind my death interesting, even if it was after a replace in after my first death...