Assuming everything I know is true then this is correct. If Scarlet dies Inferno loses regardless of anything else.

You're just making yourself look more suspicious.
I'm coming from the aspect that you've been lying a majority of this time...

You just now bring up a vote threshold that goes down each canto, and also remain the person who cryptically said two down seven to go.
You bring up teh chains of judecca, and then scarlet claims to be the chains of judecca.
I don't like the idea of having an object be a player in the game. Sure the facts might look nice, but how does a chain vote for someone. How does it do anything, and stuff? Sure that's a huge nitpick, but it also appears to be the biggest oddball as everyone else has a being-like role.

That said it does explain some of my mishaps, but again, I'm not sold of scarlet being a chains especially when he claims to also have an investigative role? That is one really awkward combination. Possible, but it just doesn't feel right.

NOT EDIT: I'm not saying they shouldn't, but as you keep bringing up, zinger needed to make a way to make sure that dante and lucifer didn't kill each other too early. Making their roles confusing is just one way to do it.

I also didn't say that your claim was perfect. I can't say unbiased things, but I doubt he would make lucifer comedy and dante divine. They would be swapped if anything, and I still don't entirely believe (based on scarlet's and your claims) that you are indeed comedy. If anyone else could confirm that, that would be swell.

Let's see if I can hit all the points from memory.

@tiny, controlling the damned is an a + b = c thing. Luci might not have the gift of foresight himself, but if you can make the damned see and make the damned tell you, you don't really need it yourself. As for the vig variant, that really depends on how it functions. A straight vig ability might suit Dante better, but a %chance vig ability suits Luci better do to the gambles he makes for people's souls. Since we cannot know exactly how the role functions we cannot know which way the ability actually leans. This is more than likely intentional on zingers part to ambiguate both roles.

@the notion Dante has to be divine, this seems to be predicated on the belief that dantes only endgame can be the death of Luci. But in both the poem and the game, Dante is incapable of killing Lucifer. In the poem his endgame is retrieving his love. I don't recall at the moment if that's an element of the game or if he's simply seeking redemption for his soul. But in either case seems to me there's plenty of possibility for Dante being comedy as well, not to mention it'd semetry with Luci being comedy from a design standpoint.

@being tied to Dante, naturally I can say I'm not but you'll have to choose what to believe. I never said I was a character though.

@that which I find weird, for a man claiming to be Lucifer, garren seems to be pretty definitive on exactly how dantes role functions and what dantes win con is.

Forgots one topic (hopefully).

@the notion of two Luci, I can see this. Luci does have three forms in the game. This could also translate to immunity if we take garden to be Luci. IIRC, the sequence was breaking the chains, kill the frozen body, then fight the final form. Translated to a role the sequence could be kill scar, vig garren, then garren is vulnerable to lynch. but that seems too Bella complicated to be the actual case.

But Altimis claims inferno and lucifer. I would have believed Dante to be comedy as well as Lucifer but that is not the current claim. I don't believe Lucifer to be team inferno given the flavor and information.

Which is one of many reasons I don't believe Altimis to be Lucifer. I'm not totally convinced he is Dante either.

The point wasn't that they both have to be comedy. Neither one could turn out comedy. Just as it doesn't make sense for dantes win con to be kill luci, it doesn't make sense for luci's to be kill Dante. But if you believe one is possible, you have to believe both are.

And that's not even getting into multiple Luci aspects. If there's more than one, its completely probable that one is comedy and the other is inferno without even taking into account dantes con.

The only way I see Dante being comedy is if there is a beatrice to be saved. Otherwise his goal was to defeat (kill) Lucifer. In the game he frees Lucifer then fights him trying to kill him. Ultimately all he accomplishes is resealing Lucifer's prison and redeeming himself with the souls he collected passing into purgatory.

Regardless of the Comedy/Divine yes/no discussion, the main goal for inferno is very, very likely to be to kill divine.
Vote alt.

Also, I dropped hints as of being the Chains as early as Canto 1 alt. It's not even near coincidental that it comes out now after almost 4 canto's of on-and-off discussion about why I am in every circle and stuff.

But I couldn't very much claim the name because I believed the Chains to be pivotal for Dante's wincon due to their role in the videogame. So my death would be quite unfortunate for Inferno.

That's why I kept beating around the bush until this Canto and the 2 Lucifer claims. With 2 people who claimed Lucifer and someone who copied me, my story would be a lot easier to swallow than when I would've come forward sooner.

sorry, tiny, I misread your request, 7th is my home circle. I still don't feel like looking up my name and I promise you it's not relevant. my ability has something to do with lynch thresholds but I'm not saying more than that for obvious reasons.

anyway, this is really frustrating because Garren's case for being Lucifer is just better, including from a design perspective, but Alt has been way more trustworthy. the only lingering question is how Alt is (or at least was) protected, but he was probably that either way. it's also possible that neither can die until Scar does, so they both live to the final confrontation, but that seems like bad design. at this point I'm probably more inclined to trust Garren just because it makes more sense, but I know how dangerous trying to outguess the mod is so I'm gonna take some time to think about it.

One thing that keeps growing on me as people mention it is the two lucifers idea.
At first, knowing what I know, I was against the concept entirely, but I was forgetting one thing.
I have a way to mask my role.

Putting those two factors together, if I'm lucifer and inferno then I show up divine. and if garren is lucifer but is comedy and I think he's dante. I really think he's dante, like, I really really think he's dante. Anyways.

My educated guesses about garren could be incorrect.

I'm starting to lean more towards there being two lucifers in this debacle a trapped one and a free to roam one. If you guys think hey but wait, what lucifer was able to be inferno and divine? Look at the bishop the entire game saying you're sins will be redeem, and how lucifer haughtily mentions "and you believe him". That is how lucifer is inferno and comes up divine. That is how he gets people into hell in the first place.

On the flip side, there is also a lucifer that is bound by chains, that dante is looking to kill. Again, technically he's not, but once he rescues beatrice, he is told by gabriel to kill lucifer (in a less direct way).

My theory is that, if there are two lucifers, then there must be a dante that isn't read as divine yet. If that's the case, then I would assume he would be a comedy (and for once not looking at garren). My guess is that dante doesn't become divine until the chains of judecca are broken and only once he is divine can he kill lucifer.
NOTE: Dante "could" be inferno as, if you follow the story of those who followed in his footsteps, or whom footsteps he followed in, they became inferno as well. In any case, he still doesn't show up as divine.

That's the only way I can really think of there being two lucifers. I know I'm lucifer. If garren and scarlet aren't lying, then that leaves there to be two lucifers. I'm only starting to come around to this possibility because setiny keeps insisting that scarlet is correct, and I trust setiny to be inferno.

Sorry, I had to drop my kid off at school... moving on:

This would mean that zinger lied to us, but he would've lied to us in a way that we would utilize our roles effectively.

Pretend I'm lucifer and garren is dante. I would be going for garren the entire game trying to kill him. If I find out, I can't kill him, the next thing I'll do is find a way to be able to kill him; killing his guardian.
The reality, garren is lucifer, he wants to be freed, and he's only freed if the chains are destroyed. He has effectively used others to get himself freed because he can't do it himself.

I can't go into more specfics because I don't know the specifics of everyone else's roles. But it would be an interesting twist, and a really great flavor win on zinger's side. But it would mean that he has been lying to us, which, as of yet, doesn't seem to be the case.

So...if Alt and Garren are both flavors of Lucifer, then I would expect that Garren might be lynchable if Alt is killed (or, maybe only if both Alt and Scar are killed).
Or, maybe neither of them can be killed until Scar is dead.
I'm thinking it's less likely that Garren is Dante. If it's not Alt, then I'm leaning towards either Story or Razor.

*So confused*

We've still not heard from Fel, so we still don't have a clock going.
Gonna try my best to avoid some work today and look deeper, but, if I don't come up with anything, I'll likely vote for Alt to see if he can be lynched, and hopefully get some answers to some of the pressing questions.

@tiny, and you don't think that redeeming souls and escaping to purgatory could be a comedy win con because...? You seem to be pushing hard the concept that Dante has to be divine and his aim has to be to kill Luci. As I said before, I think you're hiding something. I have a very strong belief that you're comedy aligned. Perhaps you're trying to steer the game away from the direction they actually need to go?

@scar, infernos aim is only to kill Dante. We know that from the op. To say that infernos main goal could be to kill divine is a blantant misrepresentation of a fundamental principal of the game and only goes to show that you truly aren't acting in towns behalf, but are jumping on what you feel is an opportunity to possibly end the game here and now.

Now I don't know if garren is as he's claimed, or if alt is as he claimed. Either could be Dante, either could be Luci, both could be Luci. What I am sure of though is that both tiny and scar are trying to swerve the game for their favor. This makes me doubt that alt is Dante, but that's the most I can conclude from it.

...two Lucifers? That's just unfair man - this game is confusing enough as is. I'm not quite buying it though I must admit I really like the idea of it from a story perspective if not a game play one.

Arrgh Lack of edits!

Vote: Altimis

Sorry about this Alt. I don't know if your Dante. You may even be another Lucy. But this confusion has to end one way or the other and well I can't die so it has to be you. No hard feelings.

Because for Dante to get to purgatory he had to go through Lucifer. To save Beatrice he had to go through Lucifer. Everything Dante related had to go through Lucifer.

Also the process of elimination. Three known Comedy are left, Alt is very confident in 5 infernos, so that leaves 1 divine. Lucifer wants freedom, making him more likely comedy to be comedy than dante. Scarlet is not Dante, I know that much to be true. 15377 is probably not Dante since you are not in any circles. Leaving Garren to be Lucifer, which given he hasn't moved and how he has acted is more likely than him being Dante.

There are two things I really wish:
I wish I could have copied you to learn more than just your alignment.
I wish you could explain why you believed Garren to be Dante when you claimed.




Inferno aligned through and through. End game will show I've been pretty open with my information, even too open at one point. Altimis could have been at majority already if I voted earlier. I'm also pretty sure if I vote him now Garren can hammer it to majority. Majority might not lynch Altimis, but I'm not willing to take that chance yet. I've been patient waiting to hear what my fellow inferno aligned have to add because I don't want to make a game losing mistake.


Preview Edit: And now Altimis is at least at majority -1 if not at majority because storyteller did say his ability had something to do with lynch thresholds.

You don't have to apologize to me, it's everyone playing inferno who's going to be disappointed (which includes me, but it's not just me).
One last thing that crept into my mind following the two lucifer's theory...
Given my ability, and garren's ability, I think Dante needs help.
garren is supposed to keep dante alive long enough to fulfill a task.
I have a vigilante-like ability that doesn't work quite as I intend.
We all now know how to free garren from his prison.

My thoughts, until Garren is freed dante is hidden; being covered as an inferno (or even a comedy). Meanwhile I'm supposed to find the chains and get dante to break them. The reason my ability has been failing thus far is because I can't kill myself (two lucifers), and I can't break the chains (being lucifer). I assume I have to target the chains along with dante in order to break them; or that the chains need to be lynched. My guess is that once scarlet is dead, I will no longer be necessary, given the other lucifer is free, I might even die alongside scarlet, I don't know.
If that's the case, if I die now, dante can't complete his task, garren can't complete his task, inferno can't complete his task and the only person who can win is scarlet; maybe numbers too.
If that's the case, if scarlet dies now, garren completes his task, dante complets part of his task and inferno gets a chance to kill dante once he is revealed. This ends in lucifer win, inferno win, and maybe numbers win.
If anyone else dies now, we just have this same argument tomorrow

That said, I don't think I can add anymore to this conversation. I've said all that I can about me, about my thoughts on garren and scarlet, and my thoughts about the game setup in general. The more I think about it, the more two lucifers just makes sense assuming everyone is telling the truth.

It's a nice theory but it's just this one bit is wrong. In that situation I (and possibly another comedy) would win. Inferno would lose. Dante dying after the chains have been broken results in my win, not Infernos - unless they are happy to merely have survived.