To answer Confused's question: Its not going to be useful at all, so stahp it nao.

And Shock, you're not making it any easier to make me want to not vote you with posts like that -_-.

Honestly - even just bringing up mass claims seems pretty scummy to me. Of course, Alt did give some good reasons why it might be a town scumhunting move...but still, trying to get people to claim roles, especially this early seems a bit off....
What else seems a bit off to me is Zherog not commenting. I know this is, what, your third game, but from what I remember/have read...you were pretty involved in early discussions in the last two games...

Here's my random early thoughts.

Last game, two of the least active people ended up being scum. That was my first game, so, I don't know if that's normal, but it did really throw town for a loop. And, likely cost us the game. Let's not let it happen again this time, if you're town, try and be active.

Also - this early in the game, no-lynch is bad. It seems like the rules favor having a lynch each day, which is good - while there are times later in the game that no-lynch could be better, right now, if we don't lynch, we don't get any information. Of course, with that, early lynching is not really that good either, as the more the discussion goes on, the more information we will get later in the game.

As such, I'm going to drop my random vote and start throwing out some FoS (Fingers of suspicion). Basically, just the people I'm looking at now.

Unvote:

FoS - Shock (for even mentioning the mass claim).
FoS - Zherog (you were a good scumhunter last game, where are you now?)

I believe Cerealkiller understood what I was trying to do and I agree, an early massclaim almost never helps town. I've found from off site expirience that massclaims often work before entering a potential Lylo Day, preferably with a mafia lynch on the board. Whether we do it or not is something we'll worry about later, we're not having one now.

I feel good about Altimis as he is trying to keep things confusing just in case the massclaim not to be would have happened.

Garren_Windspear looks good for noting and warning about modkill-able offenses around claims, but that is easy to get town points for. Town lean.

I can see Neo's reaction from town or scum. Null.

I don't think Freddeh got what I was trying to do...

Confused doesn't look to be adding much to the discussion.

Unvote, Vote: Confused

Sorry. Busy weekend coupled with health flare-up.

I thought the mass-claim idea was pretty damn stupid until reading Altimis's description. Now I think it could be pretty damn brilliant if pulled off successfully.

Shock - I know that Day One is full of weirdness and all, but isn't that a weak reason to go after Confused? Can you elaborate on why you think Confused "doesn't look to be adding much" when he's said more than, say, me? And what he's said sure seems accurate to me? I know the idea is to try to make conversation - and I guess you succeeded at that, since I'm talking about it. But it just seems an odd vote to me...

Well, I know where he was coming from since in the last game only Hello World was actually an active member of the mafia. One of the other three went innactive and quit, and the other was barely ever posting. So... I know what he's angling for, even if it is a bad reason to vote.

~SE++

Shock, explain yourself.

On other matters, I get the general idea of the mass claim. Taking alt's example however, the mafia could simply claim first and get themselves into the better situation. And e.g. If we have a cop and a tracker and they both claimed, wouldn't they be painting a big red target on their heads? There will probably only be one doc if any. There is also the possibility that the mafia will skip the power role claims and hit the vanillas in hope of finding the doc (once again, if any) first, that makes sense too, no?

This is a lot of day one activity. I'm not really seeing anything that should point me away from Shock though.

Shock's suggestion of massclaim isn't necessarily incriminating among itself.

A massclaim CAN be beneficial if you know what to do/look for (but I already went over that part).
In this game, I highly doubt that it would have been beneficial to do so.
In short, seeking for a massclaim was either a brilliant plan or a terrible plan if he was mafia, as it has, already, accumulated much suspicion. Also note that massclaims ALMOST always go better in person than over the internet, because they don't have time to carefully plan or think of what they are going to do, it's instantaneous.

There's a lot of heat on Shock, but I'm still not convinced. I need more than suspicion if I'm gonna be putting a vote on someone.

Yep, that's all true. Except Confused's most recent post had something that contributed. Yet he chose to tag Confused instead of, say, me - somebody who hadn't posted at all at that point. I get that the idea of a day 1 vote is to stir conversation - and so Shock was successful in that. I'm just curious why he says Confused wasn't adding much.



OK - and I'm not seeing anything that should point me to Shock, either, beyond the general "pick somebody and cross your fingers" theory.

(apologies for any typos - phone posting sucks.)

I'm picking Shock out of pure spitefulness, because he picked me for no apparent reason. I'm good sheeple that way.

Isn't day 1 pretty much all about picking at random and hoping you are right?

I'm pretty torn on Shock right now - yeah, I thought the massclaim was a bad idea, until it was pointed out how it could be a good town move. So, if we vote shock, and he flips town, we're losing one of the more experienced players.

It's still early in the day, but, as I said, any lynch right now is better than a no lynch.

If we lynch Zherog, will he end up going and playing some D&D games since he'll be out of this game?



~SE++

Probably not - I here that Zherog clown is lazy...

I agree with altimis, shock's idea doesn't say anything about his alignment by itself.

That said, lynching him gives us some information because of people's reaction about his idea, so we'll have something to work with tomorrow.

I'm not voting for him right now because I think we should aim for a Goblin at all times, and nothing that he said makes me believe he has more chance of being scum than anyone else. But, if, by the end of the day, we're still stuck with just guesses and random votes, I believe he's a better candidate for lynch, at least with the info we have now.

I like how multiple people are attributing Shock with the notion that he was suggesting a mass claim when his original question and subsequent post make it clear he's not suggesting one, but looking for mindsets on it. Of course that's probably why he thinks I get that he was laying a trap. Which I do, and that's why I was reluctant to answer initially and let other people chime in untainted. Since all things are pretty much said and done there, I think the results will lead us to find scum in those that were accepting of the mass claim (Fel and Alt come to mind) and/or those looking for a lynch on Shock for his trap (ie, those setting up for an "easy lynch").

I didn't say I wanted to do a mass claim.
I said there is a strategy behind it, and explained it; then I said that I was against it, but willing to cooperate.

@Confused: Your "explain yourself" post seemed more aggressive than defensive. So far, you have:
Made a joke about last game
Made a mathematical mistake (I'm still trying to decide if it was an actual mistake or not)
Asked a question about massclaiming
After several people posted about massclaiming, mentioned something others have already mentioned
You haven't exactly added to the conversation as of yet; in which, Shock has already explained himself.
I know it's early Day 1, but don't try to pretend that you haven't posted according to his claim.

Alt pretty much summed up my thoughts on the matter, but there is this little bit too:

Just a Cleric from Innistrad as scum spent most of the opening part of Day 1 discussing technicalities of the game rather than trying to advance the game. In his second game as town he at least admittedly stood aside and let things happen Day 1 with occasional added comments.

This is what I am seeing with Confused.
----------
And for those wondering why I didn't state Zherog for not adding anything:

There is a difference between not posting and posting without adding anything of value. At the point in time I made it Zherog only had a RVS vote. Whether for lack of interest, real life distractions, or something else as a reason why he had not added anything is up for question, but I had nothing to indicate an evasion of useful posting had happened either.

Alright, if that is what you think. So, what you guys are saying is that I shouldn't even post if I got nothing of value to add? Okay then.

In any case, I am not supportive of the mass claim idea, feels like too many things could go wrong. It sounds good in theory but I have my doubts.

And now you are taking things out of context.
Shock and I are pointing out that you haven't yet posted anything of sustenance, and that that's different than not posting at all.
When Shock pointed this out, you made it seem like this wasn't the case. We're not saying don't post; we're (or at least I'm) just making sure that you understand why he (we) are bringing it up.

And a definite first for me:

VOTE: Squinty_eyes

I haven't posted anything of substance either. That seems like a rather arbitrary lens to judge people by when we literally have nothing to go on. I don't mind arbitrary, and I'm not saying it's scummy or whatever. But it sure as hell is flimsy.