Technically, the game could have been over, but because it was brought up by one of the mafia about a potential undercover role, I decided to play it out, thus the grinding to haltness.

I was VT.

Alright, i'm back with my beautiful laptop.
I will post more stuff in a few minutes once I get cozy and well-fed.

The run down...

Doctor = rstnme
Retired Doctor = Arioch
Retired Detective = 15377
Citizen = NeoSilk // Elijin // Hello World

Mafia Leader = felbatista
Mafia Support = True_Believer // Zherog // Garren_Windspear
Mafia Support Brute = seekeroftruth444


==xx==

Doctor was active the entire time. Could heal others except himself.
The retired doctor was a hidden role, that came up day three. I didn't want people to know that there were two doctors until the very end, thus the reason it was a hidden role. Worked as a Nurse role, Could heal others except himself and doctor.
The retired detective was the cop, but three days late.
Citizen were the town vanillas.
Mafia Leader this was also dubbed Team Mafia. In short he had to wait for people to find him, and only by joining him could people participate in mafia discussions. This also means taht if yo lynched felbatista day one, the game would've been over. The rules...


Mafia Support: These played as lost mafia. All they knew was that they were mafia, but that they didn't know any other mafia. each night they could ask a player if they were mafia (through me), if mafia they join together, if TEAM MAFIA they add to lylo count and participate in NK discussions. If that player wasn't mafia, that player would be alerted to their presence (to a degree). Once they join TEAM MAFIA they are unable to look for mafia any more (they become vanilla). The rules...


Mafia Support Brute. At the very end, I was afraid that the support roles would search out the Leader enough, so I gave one a pseudo-silencing ability. He works the same as Mafia Support, but has one additional ability.
If you target a player and that player is town, that player cannot post during the next day. They get the following message:
[Your name] knocked on your door last night asking if you were part of the mafia.
When you said 'No', he smiled and forced his way inside. After bashing your skull in a few times, he left you for dead.
You aren't, but you are unable to post anything this round.
The wording on this one is important as if the doctor healed teh person they would have been able to post AND still known that he was a mafia member. He retained this ability once he joined mafia, only for this reason: It only worked against town. If he accidentally target a mafia with this ability (once he joined team mafia), his ability wouldn't work AND they wouldn't get the message.

In short, I wasn't expecting a day one find, and after that it just spiraled out of control in the favor of the mafia.

Also, in the end, I kep the game running solely because, I think it was Zherog, mentioned that he thought seekeroftruth444 to potentially be an undercover cop. I was seeing if that caused any tension between the group. Other than that town had already lost because of the mafia's voting order. I mean seriously... a freaking voting order?

I hope you guys still had fun!

I did this as a slight experiment, because the last few games everyone seemed to lynch town. So, I treated everyone like town, and you guys still lynched town even with a closer to 50/50 chance. Day one you lynched a town member, and day two almost everyone's top suspects were town. That's something to note for future mafia games... maybe?

That was a fun game all, thanks.

Soup, I agree the TB thing changed everything. We were planning to drag him to the gallows, and a few votes in his favor quickly played right into what we wanted. Then the request for a replacement came and I didn't feel comfortable dropping the hammer - which was why I asked about etiquette of the situation.

And I still can't say why I knew to contact Fel on N1. I knew he was mafia, but I can't figure out why.

It's a damn shame too. Once I found out for sure Ari was a townie, I was going to go after you guys next, which was why I regularly marked you at the top of my townie lists. I feel pretty good having called out seeker early and been "right" (Mafia Support), though admittedly it was frustrating building a case against someone that no one was looking at.

Numbers, I have no idea why you claimed and it still strikes me as a terrible move. Can you explain?

fel, you did a fantastic job this game, nice play!

Right? fel was active enough to be remembered without attracting unnecessary attention.

Pretty interesting concept, though I feel there were certainly some balance issues.

The fact that the game could have ended on the first lynch seems bad. I don't know off the top of my head to change that, but that would have been no fun for anyone in the game or you had it happened. Possibly if he gets lynched someone else takes over.

I think 4 mafia support is way way too many. That's 4 people on Night 1 that had a chance to find mafia, and after 1 connects, the chances of the rest finding the mafia is exponentially larger. Not to mention, the support can't even win with town so on D1 we literally had 5 out of 11 players as anti-town. Still slightly better odds of a towny getting lynched and then a town gets shot at Night, and even without a connection, you are at 5 v 4 in favor of mafia on D2 and town doesn't even have any info gathering roles. Call me old fashioned, but that seems horribly imbalanced. And on top of that, giving them the Brute to add even more power

In an 11 player game, Day 3 was pretty late to get power roles. If we make it to Day 3, the chances that the two retired roles are still around and survive N3 is not very good, and the chance that a N4 would happen and one of them would still be around and live through the Night would be even lower. I think if you wanted to limit town, a 1-shot Dr and/or cop would have been better. It lowers their power level, but lets them have a chance to use their ability instead of being forced to wait until the late game.

Granted, someone connecting N1 and Team Mafia never shooting a support definitely was the perfect scenario for them and the worst possible scenario for town. We didn't get a lucky mafia hit at Night and we didn't get a Dr. save, which certainly hurt. We also didn't get a mafia that guessed wrong and outed themselves. Did seeker, TB, and Garren ALL target Jay N1? Or did our townies just not share the info that they knew who a mafia was?

I was wary of Fel since D1 when it was very apparent that he was trying to be agreeable and after Day 2 when both of his votes were very clearly bandwagoning without any real insight, but lucky for him a lot of other people were doing a good job of looking even scummier, which I guess with 5 scum in the game isn't that much of a surprise.

HW I read you as scum for some interactions with seeker, who I also read as scum, and because you were a lot less questioning and seemingly more calm and collected than usual.

rstnme I was certain was town after our back and forth towards the end of D2 which I stated in the thread. I thought for sure he was going to be the NK that Night, but maybe scum didn't pick up on that?

During the early parts of D2 I was also pretty certain that Eli was town, which maybe mafia picked up on and that's why they took him out N2. That really hurt because he was one of my strongest reads, so good choice for the kill there.

Despite some potential design issues, it was a pretty fun game up until the last Day when it should have just been called over. This game was a good example of why I don't like non-majority lynches as well. We lost Neo D1 with only 3 votes which is really bad, and the game should have been over with a mafia win D4 instead of them needing to get their votes in first. Having to rely on timing to win, especially when some people live in other countries seems wrong to me.

@arioch:When people started showing interest in voting me I just wanted to go 1 vs.1 against someone scummy,win and get enough towncreed to do it again if he was mafia,little did I know that there were 4 traitors that the mafia could have been happy to lynch thinking they were town...

I didn't receive a message at night, but except for seeker's all other messages could have been an investigative role, maybe JD claiming was for the best, can you imagine he claiming only for a mafiate counterclaiming and having one-two townie backing him up since they received the message.

Thanks for the support, guys! It was only my second ever Mafia game, and the first as Mafia, and the fact that I wasn't really suspected most of the timed makes me a little proud of myself. Of course there's Ari to put me back on earth. I'm always looking foward to improve my game, so thanks for that too, buddy!

You obviously did a good enough job to win, so not trying to take anything away from you at all, well played, Fel.

I would say you need to be a bit more careful about your votes though. It was painfully obvious that you would wait until a couple people made a case on and voted someone and then would just come in and agree with their logic and vote that person. It can be something a new player that isn't very confident does as town, but it's also something that new scum will do trying to appear town. When coupled with the fact that you weren't really pressuring people, posting infrequently, and generally just keeping a low profile, it was pinging my scumdar. If there weren't 4 other scum players also doing scummy things I may have come after you, but typically I like to let people that are laying low like you keep doing until the late game when there is a clear pattern established.

Another thing that I forgot to mention in my game analysis. Keep in mind town successfully lynched a mafia D2, and then lynched/modkilled a mafia member D3 and still lost. They weren't on "team mafia" yet, but they were still mafia. That's pretty brutal to essentially lynch mafia two Days in a row and still lose, furthering my belief that 4 support was insanely high.

I think we did the best with what we could work with. Admittedly, altimis was trying something new, and we were trying to meta game the system anyway, so that didn't help.

Yeah, I'm usually not sure when is the correct time to vote. This game, though, I tried the be as active as possible. Busy times and all that. I normally came in and most of the activity already happened and I was left in a hard spot. Still, thanks for the advice and kind words

We chose to whack Eli because we figured he and TB were the least-likely to be doc protected. And we wanted TB alive for D3 because we knew it would be easy to get a wagon against him for the lynch. It was really as simple as that.

So Doc and Retired Doc could talk to one another?

I think it's interesting that every game so far, around D3 I end up high on suspect lists, even though this was my first time as a Black Hat. My conclusion is that everybody is just jealous of me...

Actually Arioch and I couldn't talk to each other, altimis just gave us a heads up that we existed D3.

No, we couldn't talk to one another. We just both got a message when I became active saying we knew each other. And I didn't actually know I was the Retired Nurse until D3 and neither did rstnme, so I never even had a chance to attempt to save anyone. Which would have been the same for Jay had he still been alive, he never even would have copped anyone.

I choose to believe that means you think I wasnt an easy lynch

I claimed for exactly the reasons i stated in thread. If I said nothing and claimed cop late in the game, the claim would not have been believable. As I expressed with the numbers and Ari confirmed with his similar role, there was a chance I wouldn't have even gotten to use the ability anyway, so claiming was negligible in terms of effect on the game.

As is, town really had no room for error in lynching this game. Combine with a three day delay on all its power roles and you don't have a surprising outcome for this game. With that said, the concept was good. Rebalancing it, I'd suggest making the recruiting roles full fledged members that are simply stranded. This way you can appropriately balance the numbers aspect. To balance the cop against crushing team mafia, make all memebers babyface while they are on their lonesome (night one, for example, all members would be babyface, but night 2 after a successful mafia connection, the main group would be vulnerable to coping.).

I had more thoughts (alternative thoughts) but I forget them now.

Yes, pretty much. Or, I guess putting it differently, we thought TB was the easiest lynch for D3; that actually played out, too, since two town voted for him right off the bat. Once we determined TB was the lynch target, that left you as the best NK target because we were pretty sure Doc would protect Soup, Ari, or me.

The game is a little bit different, maybe, if we lynch TB instead of mod kill. If the lynch happens we go into night 3-3. Especially knowing there would've been two doctors alive, the odds of a night kill would've been low. Maybe that means D4 plays out just like D3 did after the mod kill. *shrug*

mafia chat?