They all seem like bad townies. That's the problem PopPa.

Vote: Hello World

Best of the three wagons. I don't want to see our last active player offed yet and I think the circumstances point towards ambar being town.

Kind of.

Mafia strategy isn't a truth, it isn't easily quantifiable. It flows and changes based on how people play. While we can say they are playing like bad townies, and we're probably right, I like to think that maybe we're just a bottle of Araujo Eisele California next to a case of Bud Light.

I think that being a bad townie is something that we see as a problem. While normal mafia veterans want to see a vibrant game, they kind of get stuck in the expectations they have. "Don't do this, don't do that". Long arguments between two players of semantics intimidate newer players who want to learn. The fact that we have bad townies is a good thing, not necessarily for town in a particular game, but as an overall aspect of our metagame. Having bad townies means we have a bunch of sets of eyes, we have a lot of perspectives. It also means that we have a lot of players who are willing to learn.

Yes, we make sacrifices in a game by not punishing them, but at the same time I don't think it's an appropriate action to see "bad townies" as an inherently bad thing.

An issue arises when analyzing what a "bad townie" is. Is it someone who plays like how mafia is perceived to play? Is it someone who doesn't analyze their posts before posting? Is it someone who isn't using good mafia strategy? Perhaps it's some combination of these, but none of it actually matters.

While I did perhaps shortcut by my statement of seeing Ambar as just a bad townie what I really meant is that I get the feeling that he is genuine, and I don't want him lynched simply because he's perhaps not the greatest player. I don't think his statements are irrelevant on whether we lynch him, but I do think that, like most things in mafia, it's about reads and feelings. I don't think it's appropriate to weight everyone's actions on the same scale.

If PK were to come in here and act like Ambar, we are faced with the choice of treating him the same as Ambar or treat him differently. I personally prefer to treat different contexts differently, because that's how I see things, and because I don't care about any particular game. I'm not a conventional player, so I've perhaps gotten biased agaisnt policies of pursuing certain actions, but also my intense studies into competitive gaming and game theory has taught me that there aren't absolutes in strategy.

So yeah, I don't see being a bad townie as being a problem per se, but rather I think it's a call to analyze players with different contexts in mind.

I don't think Ambar is mafia because of how I feel, not because of any evidence I can claim to make in his defense.

I'm not the most articulate and I'm sure I could have worded that post more elegantly, but I wanted to speak from the heart, to try to show the beauty I see.

@ lilan.
Please explain why yrou think that I'm scummy.

i don't, just have town reads on the competing wagons

So you mostly suspect confused and yet vote the player in a neightbourhood with him

I guess I should make a last ditch effort to save myself.

Unvote;vote:lilan;(please mod count this.I'm posting from my phone.

After thinging about it she hasn't really done anything of note.

yep

Neighbourhood.
54 messages
1-3 greetings.
4-5 I ask when his exams start(he responds)
6 confused finds ambar a little scummy.
7-8 confused asks what players come from the mothership, I respond
9 I ask who he is going to vote
10 I comment that that was a bold choice to make as scum, and what he think of MoD
11 He finds him neutral(27 march) ask if I knew MoD from the mothership,ask me about freddeh.
12I say I heard he was terrible as scum, so no votes on him was a good sign.
13I ask him his suspects and if he suspects me.(29 march)
14HE: Most of THEM ARE null siding with KoD over number, MoD is jester-ish,Number and freddeh are a bit scummy, but first he wanrts to see ambar flip.
Wants, me to be town cuz neighbourhood with a town aligned player is good,mistakenly thinks my vote on Ambar is the 6.Ask me the same question
15 I tell him KoD unvoted,my read on him is still forming, leaning a little bit on scum due to a couple of weird things, but I suspect other players more.

More after I have dinner.

16 she awknowledges kod unvoting.
17(31 march)I ask him to rate his willingness to vote lilan and say it's for no important reason
18 he sais that since I vote rubic he doubts that I don't have a deeper motive, and rates his willingness 6/10(I asked for that scale)
19 I point out I also asked why. and if that means that he would find lynching him acceptable.
20-21 she says it's just a feeling and finding a post about (responding to ?)3 points weird, and ask if I'm just voting lilan because freddeh voted him.him finding the lynch acceptable is relatively irrelevant due to it requiring a majority(ask him for details, I'm paraphrasing the posts,he finds ambar more suspicious.
22-24 I wanted to see if freddeh was willing to vote her, now I feel that they are both "trying" to get lynched,I too find ambar scummier, but I know that the counterwagon was towndriven, and I want to maintain the promise, all in all I'm undecided.I'm Waiting for the next day so that PP and gobo scarlet start to contribute and complain about their playstile, the next day I say I want to switch to ambar because I suspect him more, but I fear my reputation in thread will take a nosedive if I do that.
25-27He says that kod is saying the truth about me being jumpy and that I should try to explain that in the thread, if I feel that ambar is better I should change my vote while explaining why,Ask how razor would break a tie, he responds.

I'm going to speak freely before deadline.

First off, as I mentioned earlier, I have been doing something different this game. This is intentional and I will explain my thought process on this matter at the end of the game. With that said, I find it suspicious when people say I'm just being numbers. But being non-confrontational isn't exactly a scum tell. Yes, they want to avoid conflict, but when it's conflict with me, most players avoid getting into it with me regardless. Still, not all of them try to avoid the matter altogether. These are people to watch.

Secondly, I'm going to drop some basic reads with no explanation given. HW is excepted since he's probably going to be dead soon. Confused - town. Fred - town. MoD - scum. Ambar - 50\50. PopPa - town. Lilan - town. Garren - scum. Rubik - town.

Confused I normally can't read for ****. The fact that I'm reading town probably means confused is scum though. Ambar could still go either way. MoD has never been viewed as an idiot townie in my eyes. I'm probably attributing more to Lilan than Lilan has actually intended to do.

Third, my entire view of this game has been structured completely around my role and it's capabilities and drawbacks (neither of which am I confirming or denying here).

Fourth, ????

And finally profits.

The above exchange was the 3-4 of april.
28-34 me asking what CaU being mi razor says it means it's enharmonic to mi, I ask if every note has a corresponding augmented note, razor confirms that, I say that I would have taken ambar as pretty much surely town if he didn't believe that a long post he made wasn't past the deadline because it required too much effort for lynched scum to make.Then realize that going by the flavour he's most likely town anyway.
35-36 confused asks the mod if he can confirm that ambar is town since he took scarlet place, razor says he can't say that.
37-39(9 of april) I point out we didn't use the QT for a lot of days, and ask him if he too believes ambar to be town.I mistakenly believe that do and tai aren't enharmonic, and wonder what this implies about lilan claim, but razor corrects me.
40-42 (11 april)Confused says he finds ambar being town logical since it would be too strong of a power for mafia to have, he finds scarlet willingly choosing to die D1 improbable, finds that even if it was scartet's triggered ability, ambar being mafia still felt illogical(he used different words I don't know how to paraphrase this)
43(14/4)I analyse all remaining players not in the neighbourhood:
LILAN: I want to believ rubiks claim that she's playing normally, and I only find his behiavour suspicious.
Number:I hope he's scum since otherwise his reads would be too different from what I perceive possible, I still need to read his posts again.
Ambar: must be town, this site town's winrate is too low and I want him to be conftown, I'd easily take him being scum as a risk since I feel he's really likely to be town.
Rubik:has slowed down on posting, but unless lilan is scum I don't believe that he could be scum, since otherwise he didn't have any particular reason to lurk today but not yesterday.
PP:Null, where are the vigs?
Garre:felt scummy, but after rereading I don't want to lynch him.
MoD feels like a village idiot and was absurdly scummy while being town in the game we played together on the mothership.
Freddeh,waiting to see how he answers my question(this was before rubik accusing me to be to lynch him )

44 I ask confused for his suspects other than numbers
45(16 april)lilan probably town,pp is suspect but mainly because of ConfusedaU's reads on ambar and numbers, bad feeling about freddeh,finds ridicoulus using the winrate to argue ambar's alignment.
46me asking if he's online.
47He realizes that the lack of votes on ambar is funny.
48I say I found that weird too, but reading the posts of the people that voted her D1 it didn't feel forced.All of them had their motives to switch to another player.
49-50 I ask rzor if I can post a link to the QT, confused says the answer is probably no.
51I complain about confused making a bunch of posts about mafia theory in the QT, while scumhunting in the thread, since it felt like he wanted to appear town in the main thread, but only make a small effort at not looking scum in the qt.
52Says that even if I explained my train of troughs that way, he thinks I was suspecting her from the beginning, or at least keeping an eye on him(like he was doing even if he wanted me to be town), because somebody mentioned Neighbourhoods are usually a scum and a town aligned players in a past game.
53 Razor doesn't allow me to post the link.
54I sayd I started to suspect him after half a week since he wasn't posting in the qt, and that's why I asked him about the date of his exams at the start,to see if he had other things to do, then I started to notice the other things.

Wait what roll back. You think MoD and myself are scum? Yet you've spent the bulk of the day fighting Ambar up to and including leaving your vote on him even when other wagons were building (one of which was for MoD?) So what you were just pissing away time?

Jeez it's no wonder we always lose. Half our guys are sat in the shadows playing with themselves and of the two self-proclaim 'good townies' one has spent the day off in the corner chasing his own agenda and the other is Popular Pariah (who has contributed maybe one good post in the past two days - and even that had nothing to do with jack).

Can all you folks from other sites with your years of experience explain to me how exactly town is ever supposed to win these things? Everything seems so hilariously stacked against town how are you ever expected to win outside of blind luck and mafia stabbing each other in the back for the lulz?

Where did I say I was a good townie? I'm generally the epitome of "bad townie" strategy.

I don't know. I'm barely even paying attention anymore. Numbers said he and you are the only ones who aren't carp townies so I'm going to go with that.

On that note we've got like 10 or so hours left by the bizzaro time zone this game is set in. Anyone want to get any pointless last minute votes in or just pick another person to shout at to while away the time? I'm bored out of my skull here and there's still like half a day left before I can official stop caring about this thread for two days.

I'm pretty sure garren is either scum, or completely trash at this game. So much to the degree I almost think he is an idiot. Saying "I'm barely even paying attention anymore" isn't something you should say. Like, however much flak I get for not posting, I at least pay attention to posts and read. If the game is boring, well then make something interesting happen. Engage yourself, reread the thread and try to point out inconsistencies and potential buddying. Try to do something other than just blindly follow the game.

While I'm not someone to just policy lynch people, you saying "I'm not even paying attention anymore" is so asinine that you actually deserve the lynch.