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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:28 am 
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This is why you're a suitable scumspect. By virtue of how masterful your logic and reasoning is, you will default to appearing innocent to the rest of us. A drastic difference that is embodied by how Monster played. Let's be honest, aside from Arrgh who will likely lurk into oblivion should he be scum, everyone else is going to be active barring rl intervention. Only the most pristine of us will be suspect as no one is here is pure (except that Cinnamon Bun that Dusky is but that's neither here nor there).

If my logic and reasoning are masterful, then given the minimal numbers of scum (1/7 or 2/7 at most), I must be, statistically speaking, more likely to bring my ratiocination to bear on behalf of town. This benefits town. Insofar, then, as we propose that analysis and reason are effective tools for identifying scum (which we both know to be the case), you ought to leave me be to root those good-for-nothings out.

I think the stronger play is the one you began to touch on last game, i.e. the fact of me being alive in the late game with immaculate town credentials despite the fact that mafia ought to have killed me. If that happens again, you're welcome to light your beacon of crusade, but until then, why not work together with your master?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:36 am 
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M0nster wrote:
:bored:

I'm bored already. Y'all are boring. Let's make something fun happen.

Vote: Skystone

It's random voting stage time, and I can't pick a better random target than someone who I am still holding a grudge against from the last game.

You may need to consult a dictionary in order to clarify your nebulous notion of 'random'.

But, in any case, voting purely on the basis of vengeance is clearly the least pro-town thing we've seen thus far.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:09 am 
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Zinger2099 wrote:
Aaarrrgh wrote:
In my defence, I had no intention of killing Dusky. If anything, Dusky was killed by her own ability, not mine. That being said, I am sorry for my part of it.

I don't believe you were sorry you killed Dusky in the slightest. I read the mafia chat for that game. I believe you said in it "Dusky's death was unexpected but welcome" or something to that effect.

In any event, accident or not, why would Mafia be sorry for killing town? That's just silly and bonkers.


In the context of the game it was welcome. In the context of me being someone who wants everyone to have fun I am sorry. It is quite difficult to be a people pleaser while you're scum.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:30 am 
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You must like pillow forts and super friends.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:42 am 
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I mean it's not hard if you're scum by yourself and just die. Confirmed Aaarrrgh isn't solo scum this game?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:04 am 
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Some of us are looking at Skystone atm for being plausible scum this game.

@Skystone:

Former master.

If you're scum this game, then your masterful skill set will only undermine town efforts. Just like last game.

Hm. You didn't make the decision to kill me. You agreed to it last time didn't you, Skystone.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:17 pm 
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JayDreven wrote:
I mean it's not hard if you're scum by yourself and just die. Confirmed Aaarrrgh isn't solo scum this game?


Would people actually have fun if that happened?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:33 pm 
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That'd be the ultimate conclusion to one who wants others to have fun via not encroaching upon them by removing them from the game.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:05 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
JayDreven wrote:
I mean it's not hard if you're scum by yourself and just die. Confirmed Aaarrrgh isn't solo scum this game?


Would people actually have fun if that happened?

Sure. Give yourself up. I'd have fun if that happened. :)

See, I don't really buy that you would place "the most people having fun" above your own desire to have fun playing the game the way it's supposed to be played—according to your role—but I'll call your bluff; if I am genuinely wrong about that I couldn't be more pleased to have you prove it. Give Town a Day 1 win. Haven't had one of those in a long time. :V

Some of us are looking at Skystone atm for being plausible scum this game.

@Skystone:

Former master.

If you're scum this game, then your masterful skill set will only undermine town efforts. Just like last game.

Hm. You didn't make the decision to kill me. You agreed to it last time didn't you, Skystone.


Seems KoD has elected to make himself Good Cop. I guess that defaults me to Bad Cop. I woulda thought he'd make a better Bad Cop but I'm sure I can do it justice too.

*puts on Bad Cop hat*

You're scum, Skystone, and there's nothing you can say or do that will convince me otherwise.

Vote: Skystone

Now if you know what's good for ya, you'll give up now. There's still time to make your lynching quick and painless.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:15 pm 
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Did you want me to hit him with a chair to make it obvious I was going to be bad cop?

Because I can go grab a chair right quick.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:56 pm 
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@Skystone

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@Zinger:

Ok, it took me longer than I figured to find a chair.


Unvote, Vote: Skystone

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:20 pm 
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That isn't actually thirty items because I was listening to Hamilton, and that slipped in there.

But hey, fifteen out of thirty isn't bad.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:43 pm 
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So you guys are just seriously going to pile 3 votes on one of the most useful players with zero evidence and putting him at lynch distance? This is some ****. I have to surmise Zinger and/or KoD are scum. Will join any wagon going for either of them.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:10 pm 
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Since Dusky is very obviously not scum I can get behind her wagon choice.

Vote: KoD

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:52 pm 
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On the one hand, I'd like to be flattered, as KoD is essentially arguing here that I am equal parts Gödel and Goethe. Alas, he proceeds from several misconceptions. My retorts are as follows:

1) My success as a deep wolf stems specifically from the fact that I act in town's interest. I hunt those who prove themselves scummy, regardless of whether or not they share my alignment. This happens to make my opinions (as scum) rather less perfidious than you're suggesting.

More importantly, though, you've essentially suggested in the course of your ranting that 3 of the 6 non-me players (you, Zinger, andJD) see through my shenanigans. Ergo, by your admission, I wouldn't be much of a threat even if I were scum (because the game will end before you can all be night killed).

2. By your own reckoning (assuming that there's 1 scum), the chance that I am town is 86%. There is no coherent argument by which you simply discard this advantage on the minimal likelihood of the other 14%. Even if you play the sort of silly reductive game by which strong players 'have to' die, then the actual, rational form of that argument would be to propose that, by surviving Night 1, I have proven myself a sufficient threat (on the basis that mafia ought to have killed me) to warrant lynching for the greater good of town.

That said, both of us know that a 7 player game is far too short for either deep wolf strategies or this sort of meta-gaming. Which begs the question of what your angle is.

3) I rarely start games by killing active players. I much prefer a back-and-forth game. Even on later nights I often show restraint. Those who have played with me sufficiently may be able to vouch for this (Dusky, most likely; possibly Jay? I'm not sure). Obviously, likely anyone who doesn't have a marble for a brain, I will kill strategically in the later stages of a game. But my penchant for lurker bloodbaths is established (I happen to do the same thing as town).

4. I am clearly playing along with the fact that you always, jokingly, refer to me as master. In case you weren't aware, public forums are actually public, ergo, by their very definition, I can't reply to your messages without others reading them.

Please refrain in the future from pulling your arguments out of a sunless abyss.

5. Bad premise, bad point. I tend not to kill active players Night 1. Next?

6. Given your penchant for vengeance, and the fact that you were outwitted last game, we can hardly expect you to be neutral in any sort of way.

7. My policy on Dusky in mafia is essentially identical to Jay's.

8. Aside from how wrong you are, you largely countered your own point. So thanks, I guess.

9. "Mafia player plays mafia. More at 11."

10. My role could break any 'promise' with impunity. By definition, I could not be at risk. I actually made the game easier for town by not creating a perfect web of promises that appeared to guarantee my lack of culpability.

11. And I made her so mad that she a) threatened to out our whole team, and b) abandoned mafia chat and all the advantages that come with coordination. You're welcome, KoD!

12. Nyphe had 7 or 8 losses. Literally 5-6 of those were due to me. You should have followed my example more closely.

13. If you were a good husbando, you wouldn't be trying to lynch Jay's cop buddy.

14. Wark.

15. "Mafia player utilizes multiples strategies. World in awe. More at 11."

...I don't know why I humored all of that nonsense.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:18 pm 
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JayDreven wrote:
Since Dusky is very obviously not scum I can get behind her wagon choice.

Vote: KoD

Why KoD over Zinger? In any case, I am obviously still on board.
Unvote, Vote: KoD

I feel like this D1 might come back to haunt us.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:30 pm 
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@Dusky:

The final vote would have to come from Arrgh, and he's not going to be the final nail. You and JD, as far as I am concerned, would not vote Skystone out D1. Not only is it not safe to do so, it would draw too much fire the next day from the other.

If the final vote was from any of Skystone, myself, Monster, or Zinger, then I'd expect an issue. But three of us are voting the other so yeah.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:36 pm 
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Unvote

I need time to respond.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:13 am 
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Duskyblue wrote:
So you guys are just seriously going to pile 3 votes on one of the most useful players with zero evidence and putting him at lynch distance? This is some ****. I have to surmise Zinger and/or KoD are scum. Will join any wagon going for either of them.

That's your opinion. I don't think Skystone is one of the most useful players. :bored:

Are you defending him cuz you're his scumbuddy?

Honestly, putting pressure (ie. lynch range) on someone with zero evidence is usually how Day 1 is played. I'm not sure it's the scumtell you want to make others believe it is.

Unvote

To make the record clear: I'm unvoting because putting pressure on Skystone has had the desired effect already, not because Dusky thinks voting Sky was a bad move and is trying to throw shade my way.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:23 am 
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1 -

Your success as a deep wolf is exactly that -- a success. Whether or not some of us see through you matters not when, in allowing you to live, you can strategically kill off those who sus you to maintain some semblance of your deep cover.

You susing people out, as town, is useful I agree; however, as scum it serves only as to hinder town. Just look at last game. You were open to susing out Arrgh, but only after others pushed him (read: me), and even then you only chose to vote him to receive something off of potentially losing him. You were not the vote which sealed his lynch. You were the one just prior to securing the lynch thereby making you look good if he was lynched, and at least showing participation should the attempt fail.

And it didn't stop there with Arrgh. You put forth a similar effort on Monster as well. Did you sus her? Most definitely you did. You also sure out a town player ***and*** pushed them over Monster (which is understandable). Point being, this is your tools at work. Your skilled reasoning and logic is assuredly sound for susing out suspicious behavior, yet, as scum, you will lead town to doom.

2) Everyone here has those same odds. I'm disregarding them I pursuing you. Mostly because I'm trying to play the bad cop, and I had to find a very specific chair to hit you with.

That being said, since I am focused on you, you make just as good a target as any. Especially if you are scum as, as has been indicated, you are certainly a threat for the town to leave around.

Also, why does a 7 player game automatically mean a deep wolf strategy is ineffective/not prone to work? The whole point of being a deep wolf is to appear as the towniest of town. It can work in a 7 player game, and your dismissal of that begs a different question. Why dismissal it when your point rings untrue? As for my angle, bad cop.

3)

Well, as I mentioned at some point in the thread, we have a game that is occupied by active players. So, unless you plan to adjust the goal post for being a lurker to apply to players here, I am going to be dismissive of your self analysis in terms of how you'd go about night killing players. By virtue of the fact we have active players, you, as scum, will night kill an active player. Probably not Dusky or JD. Maybe Arrgh as he is the closest to being a McLurker.

The remaining potential targets don't fit your self analysis.

4)

Jokingly? But it is true. At one point in my life, you were my master as I enlisted under your command at the Ivory Tower for a bit of time. Probably a few months. Admittedly I can't recall too much of that time frame other than some fragments. Chief among them being your tutelage in trying to refine my assortment of spells to help in dueling Nyphe and some others though I can't recall them.

But no, I don't call you my former master jokingly.

Plus I had to dredge up stuff against you because, again, bad cop. I suppose I can't hold it against you for not asserting the master thing, but eh. Your presence certainly can elicit that type of perspective in others. Your tool set can see to that.

Also, that sunless abyss is deep I'll have you know. With this being Day 1, there's a whole plethora of topics to possibly bring to bare. I mean, you are the same person that proposed that game plan of lynch me, kill Amber. Seems only fitting to throw stuff at you if you ask me.

5)

Given the context of this game, as I mentioned above, it isn't a bad conclusion for me to draw. After all, you can't kill a lurker in this game when practically no one will lurker (Arrgh being the exception obviously though I imagine he'll remain just at the bar of activity should he not be scum).

6)

The only thing that got outwitted were my pinkies. And that was by virtue of someone being a complete savage. Besides, I'm totally the last person to be neutral anyway so last game doesn't matter. I don't see why me not being neutral matters though. It's not like I'm in court arguing a case before a judge. Rather, I am playing a bad cop who has you as the target for being likely scum. So my entire purpose is to tunnel you into oblivion.

And win with the town too.

Also, I am totally not vengeful. Kinda. I mean, have you seen me take revenge on Dusky for leaving me to rot in my grave? I am obligated to say any future actions I take against Dusky can't be held against me given what I'm saying here.

:shifty:

7)

Yes, and that makes Dusky a weak point vs a scum aligned Skystone. You'll end up having an advantage because she'll protect those she reps as mayor. I mean, just look at how she has reacted thus far? Clearly your presence has shifted the balance in your favor while she is around.

8) How so? The possible lack of teammates doesn't negate that you act as a puppet master with your available tools. That is, you are more than capable of mind controlling town. *Cough*Dusky.*Cough*

9)

You could have said that in response to this entire line of conversation if you really wanted. But you enjoy the back and forth. After all, it is the interactions that make the game. That being said, the point still stands as it is demonstrable just from last game.

10)

That's more on the town than anything, but you certainly didn't go out of your way either to help town in that mechanical respect. Strictly speaking, you're able to utilize the style of Zinger by leading others on while also utilizing the style of HW and lying as much as you need to.

Evil. Like I said.

11)

Welcome for defeating the town, and having/letting me get night killed? pffffffffffffffffffff

It's not an implosion if there is no self destruction. Incidentally, Zinger and I had a bet going that never came to fruition since Monster wasn't pushed by you.

Speaking of which, Monster, if you ever see that chat, the avatar idea was not mine and I certainly don't want to be subject to any retribution from that discussion. Just saying.

12)

I'm only as good as the teacher.

/wrists

13)
You're not JD though. I'm not perfect. I wouldn't be me if I was.

14)
Too little too late now you mafia aligned chocoholic. Its only a matter of time now.

15)

>.>


It's all about the interactions. Mind-numbing as they may be.

So, big question is are you going to nk Arrgh for lurking?

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