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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Let's just say I think Fel is slightly less suspicious then the rest of you - for now. Of course, since it "seems" like the goblins have a roleblocker, there's really nothing that can be done (short of lynching him) that would prove that he's not a cop, like he says.

So - I don't want to say that I'm 100% believing him, as of now, but, he did out himself to get the Shock lynch (which, really was a bad move, since it seemed pretty obvious that Shock was going to get lynched) and he was right with that one....

So - either it was just a bad play by a town cop, since, assuming that the goblins had a roleblocker, he prevented himself from getting any more information, or, it could be a great move as a goblin, throwing another goblin under the bus to make himself look great in the eyes of the rest of the town....

So yeah, he's not off the radar by any means, he just is lower on my list.

OK - I think I might have time to do a player by player re-read now...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:07 pm 
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Also to address the counter claim that has been mentioned by Confused and Neo, while this is true that a claim could be made, I dont imagine we'd see said claim for a few days. Since Fel has taken down a goblin, anyone bringing a counterclaim would have to either bring another goblin death to the table, or risk revealing multiple other townspeople's roles in order to gain any traction on their counterclaim. Without something to back up the counterclaim against Fel's bodycount, the claim would quickly go against them. Which would round aboutedly work in their favour I guess since if the counterclaimer were lynched and flipped cop, the jig would be up.

So while its a possibility, its a considerable risk that would take a few nights of digging to yield any fruit, or cost us a cop in the 50/50 flip a coin trial by fire.

This hasnt really brought me any closer to a decision on how I feel about fel, just addressing some of the things being mentioned.


And in regards to the post Neo made while I was writing this, thats why I simply aired my thought process for everyone, and didnt back it with a vote. There isnt compelling enough evidence to lynch, I just dont want people to get complacent because he had a successful day.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Wow....17 pages, and 2.5 of them are from Alt...

CK:
Posted against the mass-claim, after delaying his answer.
Voted for Alt (which many of us did)
Voted for Shock (which was a good vote)
Had some back and forth with Fel, and has not really posted anything of substance in D3.

Confused:
Somewhat inactive early on - had posts, but not much content.
Voted for Alt.
Voted for Shock, a bit late, questioned Fel's claim, as it looked like Shock was going down anyway - nothing since.

Elijin:
I'm going to ignore the random roll votes.
Voted Shock early
Actually provided a good reason for the Alt vote (in my opinion)
In re-reading, makes some decent points against Fel.

Fel:
Seemed to defend Shock, a little bit early on (before he had his night action).
And, the claim. Pointed at Shock, CK and me.
Personally, I would have preferred that he not make the cop claim, so he could check out CK and myself, to provide more information to town.

Garren:
Voted for Alt
Posted his reads on Alt/Freddeh/Shock, hinted at leans on me, SE and CK.
Voted for Shock

I'm skipping myself, as I know where I am. I'm happy to answer any and all questions posed of me.

Silly:
I don't know who you are, but you really jumped into the game.
Been over a week since the last "Silly" post.

OK - so, I ran out of time before I could really go into SE and rst.

Overall thoughts (and I will get back to SE and rst):

CK - I find your actions suspicious. You're clearly on my "might be scum" list.
Confused - much like last game, I'm confused. You seem to be making good decisions, but I can't help but feel like I'm missing something. You're on my "undecided" list
Elijin - after re-reading, I'm going to drop my vote from you. While I might not fully agree with all of your posts, putting myself in your shoes, I can see how it all makes sense. You seem to be scumhunting. On my "likely to be town" list;
Fel - I've said it before, I'm still taking your claim at face value. Of course, aside from lynching you, I don't see how that could change, since I expect you won't get anything else out of your role. Still on the "likely to be town" list.
Garren - I'd like to hear your thoughts on SE and myself. Right now, you're in between "undecided" and "might be scum".
Silly - I thought Freddeh was scum. When you took over, you were active, but have slipped back into nothing. You are on the "might be scum" list, and might be leading the way...
Rst - I need to re-read your posts. You were on the "might be scum" list early on, and are still there.
SE - I literally have no idea where you stand. And I don't like it.

Seems like, overall, chatter has died on D3 - I know, I was part of that (but, I was stuck in a windowless room in Texas for 5 days...not fun) but I'm back now, and ready for the town to get our first win on NGA. Let's get talking and voting again, and see what we can find out.

Unvote:
Vote: Silly

Reasons - Like I said, I was suspicious of Freddeh. When Silly did the replacement, I got a bit less suspicious, but, with Silly vanishing, the suspicion is back, and, after last game, I really don't like inactive players who haven't really added anything to the game.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:52 pm 
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SE - I literally have no idea where you stand. And I don't like it.

If it helps: I've been busy and there's been little said to go on. Been working double shifts a lot, sorry. If you guys wanna replace me, you can.

~SE++

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:01 pm 
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Well...you're far from the least active player...so, I don't think it's at that point yet. There has been a lack of discussion going on, and I think we're all guilty of that.

How about a FoS thing? If people don't want to actually throw out votes...who does everyone think is scum? If we keep the discussion as limited as it is, I see very little chance that town will win...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:44 pm 
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NeoSilk wrote:
Garren - I'd like to hear your thoughts on SE and myself. Right now, you're in between "undecided" and "might be scum".


Yeah sure I'll throw out my thoughts on those two cads.

Squinty_Eyes - I have absolutely nothing; mostly because of his lack of activity as of late but he has explained that a few posts above. At the moment I am leaning goblin with him but that's mostly because I'm now taking a 'Goblin until proven otherwise' approach to this game and while he hasn't really done anything to out himself he hasn't really done anything to exonerate himself either. Also his name is dangerously close to Shifty_Eyes and that makes me suspicious.

Neosilk - You've been talkative and share your thoughts freely without having to first be backed into a corner and you have done nothing to make me even the slightest bit suspicious of you. You are clearly a goblin. I mean everyone else here is all jittery and paranoid about everything and your just far to relaxed about all this - obviously your hiding something!

Honestly I was only half joking with my list before. I still think the following people are goblins;
1. Silly - for pretty much the same reason I suspected Freddah before - seemingly random actions and long silences.
2. Neosilk - see above
3. Squinty_Eyes - see above
4. Felbatista - The cop thing was kinda suspicious to me. He simply didn't need to do it - Shockwave was dead regardless of his actions.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:01 pm 
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While I see your logic there, I can't disagree more. It's the same thing I did last game; as town, I have nothing to hide. If I share my thoughts, and get killed, maybe it leads to a goblin. If I share my thoughts, and don't get killed, most likely it's because I'm 100% wrong (again, like last game, I'm pretty sure the only reason I lived was that I was completely off).

Mafia has to be careful, one slip up, and it's done. I, on the other hand, don't feel the need to pick and choose my words, since I have nothing to hide. All I want to do is try and figure out who the goblins are.

I agree with you on Silly. SE could be lurking as mafia, I just don't get that feeling. Of course, last game I was sure he was mafia and was way off.
Fel - I really just think it was more of a beginner mistake. If he is a goblin, then he's fooled me.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:03 am 
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I have a lot of things to cover since my last post, so here comes heavy usage of spoiler tags:

Spoiler


I'm not leaving without casting my vote, though. It's a pretty obvious vote, but we need to start looking closely to our suspects.

Vote: Cereal_Killer

Reason: Nothing has really changed from what I've said on my claim post. It only got worse, in fact. On top of everything, he now has vanished. I'm pushing his name, and I want to hear what he has to say about that.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:09 pm 
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Vanished is a strong word. In fact, I've gone nowhere. There really has been no discussion requiring my presence. Questioning the mafia kill is frankly just dumb. My time was better spent analyzing previous days and deciding what my next move is to be.

As I said yesterday, I saw a discrepancy in your stances. This has been echoed by a few players and has shown to be true in that your night result was skewing your view of Shock from Day 1 to Day 2. Before your claim you tried to play it off with information from within the thread, but that was apparent, as I pointed out. Additionally, as I also pointed out, there was two possibilities for my pushing yesterday, you'd out as cop or you'd out as having no basis for your switch. Given we had plenty of reason to believe the existence of a doc from the night before, outting you as a cop was not a dangerous thing if it lead to scum lynch. You said earlier, and I'd agree here, Shock was not as dead to rights without your claim that a few people are trying to make him out to be. Conversely if you had no actual basis for the sureity you were espousing, then you'd be a good lynch target yourself.

Now for where I'm going from here. My gut is telling me Elijin. Day 1 he had a habit of staying out of major discussions while they took place. He was called out on the mass claim discussion after the fact and avoiding a majority of Rst v Alt, only getting in at the end of the day when he could easily pick on Alt after Alt had already taken quite a bit of flak from other players. Where I feel the opposite is true Day 1 is where Eli points out that Shock dropped his loaded question and then faded out for the day. But this is a minor blip in a post where he immediately dismisses it in order to hound Alt under the banner that lynching Alt is better for town whether Alt is town or not, which is hardly a decent banner to lynch under. Day 2 shows Eli with minor jabs at Shock again, but again he defers to a player that was taking more pressure at the time (this day being Fel). He even goes so far as to make explanations on why both Fel and Shock could be mafia despite Fel pushing for a Shock lynch. Eli is not present after the Fel claim and ends the day not voting, iirc. Day 3 we've seen Eli a little more on point discussion wise, but he's thought train seems solely to discredit the claimed cop.

What say you Eli?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Okay well first up, picking on me for staying out of major discussions while they take place is a little on the unfair side. Between you saying you were going to step to one side on that conversation, and stepping in at the end to discuss how you felt it played out there was about 5 hours. In my local time, that was 1am-6am on a Monday morning. I sometimes read from my phone in the early hours of the morning, but Im rarely at a point where I'd want to post from my phone, while half asleep. By the time I was ready to do any posting, the conversation had pretty much been covered several times over. I didnt avoid expressing my thoughts on it when asked to, but I also didnt throw my thoughts into the mix randomly, long after it'd been declared a bad idea by most.

I didnt pipe in on Alt when he had a moment of weakness, I did so when he began talking about how he had said what he had to say, and that was that. The previous game he played in broke down because himself and another player locked horns and refused to move forward, throwing it onto a new player to be a deciding vote while they both refused to proceed. That precedent combined with the fact he was wildly pointing and then becoming suspicious of anyone who didnt accept what he said wholesale, meant that at the time he looked like a goblin or a liability. Im not going to make apologies or shy away from my stance there. He was acting in a way which was not going to be an asset to the game. And I wasnt alone in that, a lot of the reasons I was uncomfortable in him were mirrored by you. I just took a slightly harder stance.

I've also never shied away from Shock. He didnt give much to work on, but a bunch of what he did give was shady, and I pointed it out every time I felt it didnt mesh. But locking on to a target to the ignorance of everything else is not helpful. So yes, I did consider other players. So when Fel started acting inconsistent, and trying to create a backstory which didnt fit (He posted claiming posts by myself and another changed his stance, when the timing was all wrong for that to be the case), considering I was already already looking at him, I did call out behaviour which didnt fit.

I didnt vote after fel's claim day 2 because in that 24 hour period I only got to check in briefly, during which we had a new player stepping in, and there was confusion surrounding that. More votes stacked on, less time that had to sort that out and actually see them play. I refrained from voting to allow more time, and when next I checked in the votes were already high enough for a lynch, so I went on with my weekend and waited for the verdict.

As for Fel discrediting is a bit much. In each of my posts addressing this the final thoughts have been 'Dont forget, nobody gets a free pass.' Not to mention, as a revealed cop (something you claim to have intentionally painted him in the corner to do so, feeling the doctor was enough of a safeguard), he doesnt exactly have any information to discredit now.

However, addressing the individual points aside. I can see how you would be looking at me. I have made a few moves throughout the game which I knew would not be popular, but I felt needed to be asked, and at least Im somewhat of an expendable role. Moves such as asking taking the hardline against Altimus, asking if investigative roles could bring anything to the table and playing devils advocate in reminding everyone that a goblin would have similar information to an investigative role, and always to stay on your toes. They are unpopular moves, and attract attention of potentially the unsought after kind....but they further the game, and stop people from being complacent.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:24 am 
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Did the US implode or have a a huge holiday or something? Where did everyone go?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:32 am 
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I'm still here, GobO_scarlet and GobO_fire are clearly goblins.
Vote:GobO_scarlet,Vote:GobO_fire.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:48 am 
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The conversation didn't start and end with my posts, so that point is irrelevant. Other players still decided to weigh in after my post. You didn't post until two days later, so you're point of not phone posting half asleep is also irrelevant, as you clearly weren't half asleep for two days. When you did return you make a point to defend your dice roll vote which was vaguely being mentioned, but then again so was Shock's mass claim conversation point so it would be no more random to address that then to address your dice roll. As you state you didn't avoid expressing your thoughts when asked, but the point is you had to be asked.

Our motives may have been similar, but our actions were not. During that time you chose to strike. During that time I chose to give him the opportunity to redeem himself. The difference here is that you clearly did not care if he was town. And that is my point.

See I feel like you're being the inconsistent one here. Fel was presenting information on why his opinion on Shocked changed from early Day 1 to early Day 2. He presented posts that occurred late Day 1. His stance meshed perfectly for the question posed to him. The inconsistency came from the post I found mid Day 1 that happened before either of those posts, but I didn't point that out until after you had already jumped on Fel for being "inconsistent", making it more likely you were just jumping on the easy target.

Day didn't officially end for 4 days after Fel's claim. Plenty of time to post, but getting back to point, you avoid it where possible.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:57 am 
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Quote:
I'm quoting Confused here, but the message goes to the other players with the same point too (namely Neo and Garren). You're all basically saying I didn't need to claim because Shock was already a dead man. You guys are kidding, right? Are we even reading the same game? Go back and read Day 2. Aside from me, there was actually ZERO pressure over Shock. People were all over the place, pointing fingers to Freddeh for no reason and making posts like this:


Fel - I looked, and, you are correct. When you made that claim, there were only 2 votes on Shock, and a few on Freddeh.

While I feel like Shock would have gotten the boot anyway, it was not clear.

So - there's really 2 options here, 1, Fel is a cop, wanted to ensure a goblin lynch, which he did.
Option 2 is, Freddeh is(was) also a goblin (as is Fel) and Fel wanted to keep votes off of Freddeh for some reason, and sacrifice Shock instead.

When I put it like that, it really doesn't make any sense. With Freddeh being inactive, I don't see why Fel (again, assuming he was a goblin) would have made that call.

So - IMO, I can't believe that Fel is lying here. It just does not make sense. This, of course, does not mean that Freddeh/Silly is not a goblin - i really just think it adds weight to Fel's claim.

I still think that Silly is the best lynch option - he could be scum (it's very odd that we've not seen any posts for a while) and, at the best, he's not helping town...

So - my vote (for now) is staying where it is.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:01 am 
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I feel like every game there are always a handful of people who just don't post, and it kind of ruins the game for me :P

I'd be down with voting Silly just because I want to actually play with interested players. On the flipside, if Silly is town, this is a perfect and very easy opportunity for goblins to get a "free" kill.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:32 am 
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rstnme wrote:
I feel like every game there are always a handful of people who just don't post, and it kind of ruins the game for me :P

I'd be down with voting Silly just because I want to actually play with interested players. On the flipside, if Silly is town, this is a perfect and very easy opportunity for goblins to get a "free" kill.


Give a better target.
I'll say it now, I'm not going to vote for Fel at this point. While I don't think his being a cop is going to help with the rest of the game, I see no reason to not believe him, and he's the strongest town lean I have.

Anyone else, I'm at least open to discussion on...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:32 am 
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Quoting your times were more of an establishing context than anything else. Yes, the whole conversation didnt take place during that time, but Im pointing out that the bulk of it took place in the wee hours of Monday morning, following into actual Monday. I posted when I had the chance, and mentioned the dice because it related directly to me and the post above that mention commented on it. I didnt mention the mass claim because at that point, it would have been rehashing what had been said a few times over. I got to the party late, had I posted my thoughts then I would have been accused of just parroting negative views on it like everyone else. I didnt mention it til asked? Accused of avoiding it. Lose lose.

You can paint my actions however you like. I pleaded with Alt to remain open and communicating for a stretch before eventually finding his behaviour had gone too far left field, re-reads will show that. Im also not the only one concerned with how he was playing, even as a town. Im just less apologetic about it. You play poorly, you get lynched. None of us are immune to that.

The inconsistency I was referring to with Fel, is the fact he was quoting posts made by myself which had shifted his view, even though the post he was quoting happened before he expressed his view the first time. If it had merit with him, it would have been prior to day 2, not something he read later and changed his view.

Fel claimed Friday Lunchtime.
my words:
Quote:
I didnt vote after fel's claim day 2 because in that 24 hour period I only got to check in briefly,

It was more than 24 hours, but this is a miscommunication on my part. I only got to check in briefly for that 24 hours, and then not at all for the next 48.
I spent Friday afternoon to late Sunday either at, preparing for or doing after stuff for Waicon (Which day ended Sunday evening, which is still only 2 and a half days, not 4.) I didnt post straight after his claim and never got another chance.

A big part of the reason I may sometimes seem to avoid posting, is the time zone conflict, sometimes I get online and there isnt much in the way of active info to work with. Sometimes I stay up late and do my best to participate. Sometimes I come online out of sync and find too much to deal with, and break it down to managable sizes, resulting in time lapses in my response (which sometimes snowballs as I get more to catch up with. I try to avoid this, but sometimes you get home and you're too tired for complex thought.)

In my previous reads of you C_K I hadnt found much amiss. Seeing you now intentionally misrepresent things to poison the water, I think I need to do some re-reads.

And to anyone questioning, at least for me personally Shockwave flagged himself as Goblin beyond doubt when he tried to use obscure rules to stop us from questioning his activity, rather than defend himself. So to my inner thoughts, he was a sure thing. This may have coloured my posts when I said he was totally screwed. But being he did that early in the day, I called him on it and didnt vote, since if the vote took off, t'would have been a short day.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:56 pm 
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Was it heaviest during the wee hours of monday? Maybe. But the timestamp from Shock's initial post to the last definitive stance being posted is roughly 40 hours. This last post is roughly 11 hours before your next post. The only thing that happened in those 11 hours was Alt's "test" of SE. So to say that the conversation was over way before that is blatant misrepresentation. As for it being a double edged sword, it's hardly a lose lose situation. When Fel posited the question to you, he also noted you were the only player to have said nothing on the matter. Given there are only two opinions on the matter (for or against) you can hardly be faulted for having the same opinion when there were 11 other players weighing in with only two options. There's going to be overlap. Not to mention the point of the question wasn't for you to generate new and exciting reasons why something may or may not be good, but merely seeing what you thought.

So what you're saying with the dice thing is that even though there was a multiple day conversation sprawling you thought it was more important to defend against one line in one post that wasn't even an issue enough to bring a vote against you?

Pleaded is pretty harsh. A re-read shows that you and Alt had a little tussle over what you thought he was saying and what he thought he was saying. This conversation took place over roughly 9 hours. Your vote came roughly 13 hours after your initial fault finding with Alt. I can see how you'd call that a stretch. Totally. No sarcasm here. Nope.

As for Fel's inconsistency, he was responding to a question I posed him, in which what changed his view early day 1 (which was refering to a post I quoted specifically with the question) to the current day's opinion. He provided two posts that happened after the initial opinion which I quoted but prior to the start of day 2. There's nothing wrong with the time table he provided, which you're trying to find some inconsistency with.

I will admit I did not structure out the exact time from claim to deadline. I solely did quick math on the days provided in the time stamp (for me its thursday to sunday) which in a pocket is four days. The hour to hour is roughly 56 hours, not quite 2.5 days. But the point stands firm. There was plenty of time for you to react to it. I'll grant that you may have been too busy to post in those 56 hours, but stating that after the fact is not a forgiving point. There's a reason why people give notice when they think they might be gone for greater periods of time.

If Shock was goblin beyond doubt, what's it matter if it's a short day? All you need to do that day is successfully lynch a goblin. Why avoid your sole purpose for the day just to drag things out? I feel like you're trying to generate excuses on why you shouldn't have been voting for Shock that day to make it seem like it's a good thing you weren't, which town certainly doesn't need to do.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:53 am 
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In the rawest most straight to the point way of saying it - By the time I had the opportunity to post it was pretty well established that only a goblin would be for a day 1 mass claim, and the whole thing was a trap. So really there was only one answer anyone would go with, no matter what their alignment. The only real point of my expressing my view is seeing how I worded it. So the whole thing is a moot point.

The dice thing directly addressed me, and I responded to it.

I pleaded with Alt to not go down a certain path and then ended up voting for him based on a different thing entirely. A fault in his logic in which you can be quoted as saying I 'Hit the nail right on the head'. So if you're throwing my vote on Alt into suspicion, you're throwing your vote into suspicion.

Doing a re-read shows you are correct. I dont know why, but I was certain that he had posted after the post of mine he quoted. He did not, I was wrong. Which would be a bigger deal if it wasnt my first and only mention of Fel on day 2. Not exactly 'pouncing on'.

I refuse to give your point about the 56 hours credit whatsoever. With the exception of Shock who was blatantly online and not participating, most of the players of this game have been offline or not posting for significant periods here and there throughout the game. Only one of them has stated he would be away before going away (Fel). If you're going to go after me for having a busy weekend which I didnt excuse beforehand, you should really step up and go after most of the players in this game. Im not even going to treat this as a serious point, as to pursue me individually would be a farce.

And seriously? The only thing town has on its side is conversation. A short day is a day with very little conversation. Even if you have a sure thing, player interaction is the whole point of a day. Questioning someone wanting to get the most out of each day is ridiculous. Shorter days and quick lynching benefits Goblins, as they can kill more frequently with less information being shared between.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:07 am 
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Joined: Oct 30, 2013
Posts: 4600
@Scarlet - can we get an update on when this day is going to end? I'm assuming we're getting somewhat close as it's been a week or so now...not much voting going on...again, aside from a few people, not much discussion going on (and I've not had a chance to really read the Eli/CK discussion above me).
If we don't talk, and don't lynch, it's pretty clear the goblins will win....c'mon people!

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