OK, I've finally had a chance to sit down and read the bloody game. I could make excuses, but none of them are related to the game so who bloody cares.

Obviously, activity is being a problem for the time being, of which I have admittedly hitherto been a problem. Though there's a degree to which I'm grateful that the reading on return was pretty easy.

Honestly, I think CL is actually making a good deal of sense right now. Zinger feels like he's all too inclined to gain buddies, including Shock, rather than to deduce. I may have been jumping the gun/joking around by calling Cult on his early jubilation, but I'd believe it based on his current play style.

VOTE: Zinger

Rag's role feels like obvscum threat to the town, but Rag's at least playing it like he's a townie for the time being, which is reason to spare him in favor of Zinger. Also, if Zinger is going to be banished to the shadow realm, we clearly need to do it via lynch since he's claimed bulletproof and, under his NLP, that's one thing that's actually fairly cut and dry (as much or as little as his role is bastard)

While we wait for more activity let's amuse ourselves with other mafia related things

Vote Count:

Shock: Rag, Naga, CL
Zinger: Tevish

So I'm interested though in how Shock is a spy in the mafia chat. Have anymore to add, Shock? Like who is mafia, plans, etc.

Tevish, are you Mafia? I think you're mafia. Oh, and not just for OMGUS reasons either. Check this reasoning out: we are playing in a bastard game with 5 alignments. In such an environment, a willingness to make friends is the smart and logical choice for ANYONE in an uninformed majority, which I am among. The fact that you are suspicious of such activity, and not looking for any alliances yourself, suggests that you are quite comfortable and secure in the knowledge that you have all the help you need already.

There are 5 alignments. Do you really think that they are ALL a threat to the Town? That we are playing in a 4 vs 1 against the Town game? Because that wouldn't be just bastard, that'd be downright unwinnable.

Regardless of what my alignment is, Town or Other, all I know is that I am in an uninformed majority in a game with 5 alignments and I don't feel secure in my ability to survive to the end DESPITE being Bulletproof, and am trying to make friends to ensure I do so.

You're suggesting I am trying to make friends for nefarious reasons, to later betray them as part of my evil plan, but the second half is you extrapolating/assuming the motive behind my obvious friendly buddy-making demeanor. There is no evidence to support your theory. Yes, I have clearly tried being friendly to nearly everybody equally, but if that is your 'proof' then you are making a strawman/Chewbacca argument. "Why is he making friends? It doesn't make sense. If he is trying to make friends, he must be scum, because town doesn't need friend." That's basically your argument, and yeah it is as stupid as I am making it sound.

I am trying to make friends, or alliances, so that I can learn more about the game and help everyone who is on my team, and even those who are not on my team but not against my team, stand a better chance at winning.

Now, why don't YOU want to make friends with the other 4 alignments that you are not? Do you already have enough friends? I think you do. Because you are Mafia.

Intentionally or not, you misrepresent me. What I say is that you, normally a bulldog going for the throat, are playing very much against type. Especially against non-scum type. I know this because we have fairly similar takes. Scum needs your trust and affection. Town needs logic and reason. AS topsy-turvey as the game may be (and with the current no flip status, things are clearly beyond bizarre)

I, however, believe in a healthy dose of paranoia. Perhaps some non-town alignments are neither scum (Maf, cult, etc. Need to be killed for town to win) nor quasiscum (like survivors), but I for one would not trust that any particular claimed nontown would be somehow safe. As town, my purpose is to identify and eliminate forces that threaten the town, which are a subset (possibly even the totality) of those nontowns. Making friends with the four nontown alignments is a losing play, the farmer and the viper.

If you're some sort of cult, survivor, or other subversive element that can win regardless of external intents, or alternatively if you have the tools to perpetrate the sudden yet inevitable betrayal on your own terms like mafia, well then "making friends" is great and advantageous. I don't have that information, that kind of wincon, or that capability. Therefore, I'm going to be hunting as best as I am able under the circumstances.

Normally, a Town player pursues leads trying to lynch scum with the help of others whom they suppose are also Town because the predisposition is that the majority of players are Town.

But the majority of players are probably not Town here. Therefore, in order to achieve any sort of traction on eliminating threats, you need allies.

Normally you don't have to look for allies because standard meta presumes that you're working with nothing but Town players and those who aren't Town but need to try and appear Town anyway so they might still help you on your lynch-quest. That's not here. You can't afford to presume you are surrounded by Town players, because you probably aren't.

If you have any inkling of winning this game, you need to play with the context of the game in mind. Case and point: you want to mount a lynch against me because you suppose I am anti-town (some sort of nefarious Cult, I'm sure), so you vote me and make a persuasive-ish case I guess. Then what? You need a majority to lynch me. In a standard game, you might be able to count on your persuasive case that I am playing in a non-standard way and likely ain't Town as a result maybe, but in a standard game that might work only because of paranoia and fearmongering. You, a presumably Town player, point out an inconsistency in how I am playing this game relative to others, and other presumably Town players might be likely to jump on that bandwagon for lack of better targets right now. Do you see the problem with that here? Let me spell it out for you: if Town is not the majority, then your arguments about how I am playing is probably going to fall on deaf ears on account of the majority of players might not care how I am playing. Non-Town players have an agenda and will make decisions based on that agenda, which might not be to help you find scum.

But if you can rope in a survivor or two, maybe an ancient Aztec buddy, then together you might be able to take down the actual scum team(s). But not before.

But don't take my word for it. Keep doing what you're doing. I doubt we're the same alignment and I'd rather you continue to shoot yourself in the foot by ignoring the obvious need for alliances to forge a path to victory. When you lose, don't say I didn't warn you.

@Rag, who do we want to lynch toDay? And do we want to bring anybody else into the Rag-Cult toDay?

Our current members are:
Rag
Zinger
Aaarrrgh
Naga

I'd be down to bring shadow amber into the rag-cult on account of shadow not having a win-con, therefore they are the least likely to later try and betray us. Also I'd be down for lynching Shockwave, maybe, on account of hinting having access to the mafia chat is most likely a sign that he is mafia pretending to be a non-mafia spy (what's that role called? innocent child or some ****?). What'd Shock ask for in the setup thread?

I'd also be down for lynching Tevish because he has the dumb right now.

Day ends in around 3 hours, so I have doubts on whether or not the vote can be swung or not. I'm still waiting to hear back from Shock about his claim. At this point I'm probably okay actually lynching since he's still been inactive.

end of day snuck up on me woops

I'm skeptical of tevish's alignment as well but there are enough unknown variables in this game that its probably impractical to read people. If all tevish knew was that he was town I don't think he'd be playing the way he was. He could easily be town aligned and have access to additional information that motivates him to play the way he is, though.

I'd rather not lynch tevish in any case because he's one of the more proactive players in the game right now.

I'm worried about no-lynching from a game winning perspective, since my one wincon is eliminating threats to my faction (albeit i don't know who they are). If something like a cult exists, then no-lynching will just hasten their win without progressing mine. I assume town has a similar win-con and is thus in a similar position.

The claim was left ambiguous as to whether Shock was a mafia spy or spying for mafia. Getting to the truth should concern town more than lynching blindly, Rag.

Its probably true that no-lynching is better for solving than lynching is at this stage. I'm just not sure its worth the risk of losing the game. Lynching blindly is potentially more effective than doing nothing (particularly if something like a cult exists)

I agree, but my concern was that Shockwave said that to avoid scrutiny, and hasn't backed up the claim with anything. I didn't really intend on lynching Shockwave, aside from pressuring them to get in the game. The fact that they didn't probably means we still should lynch, despite the vague claim. At this point it's too late anyways, but that was my reasoning.

Day's End

Vote Count:

Shock: Rag, Naga
Zinger: Tevish

And so ends another day, gone with but a whimper. Shock has been lynched. Do that night boogaloo.

A New Day Begins

So another day begins but changes are in the air. Rubik has rejoined the living. Let's hope he's out for sweet sweet revenge.

Go forth and day!

wb rubik

i killed amber

@Rubik: are you the same alignment as before?

@Rag: I don't like that you're apparently the only one killing people. We may have to lynch you just because of that. Which is a shame, but it really doesn't seem wise to let you live much longer.

sup Rubik. Any changes to note?

i mean, KoD had a killing role based on his flip, and rubik might have the ability to kill too