OK, while I've not had enough time to do my full review/write up, I'll say that Shock is clearly my number 1 suspect right now, and Freddeh is #2.

@Shock, your moves were suspect, and you've vanished. As soon as people started calling you out.
@Freddeh, where have you been? Not in this game. Again, it's not 100% telling, but, at the absolute best, lurking is not helping town at all.

Between the 2....

Vote: Shockwave

@ Squinty - I wasn't 100% convinced that Altimis was mafia but I was 100% convinced his behavior was disruptive to town. He reacted so poorly to the accusation that he was a goblin that the entirety of the last few days became people a shouting match - which pretty much prevented anything else being done. Obviously I would have preferred that he had flipped mafia but I still stand by my decision.

@ Neo - I'm pretty much in agreement there. I gave Shock a pass last time just because he did get conversations started but at this point it's pretty much him and Freddeh on the top of my suspects list. The rest of you I simply don't trust

This is probably the epitome of why I think you're scum. You question Alt's behavior. Then state it makes him the perfect mafia target. Then state if he doesn't die we have a really good reason to lynch him as scum today. Any reason we would have today, we would have had yesterday, which should have made him a viable target in your eyes. Your post (referring to this one and the one you posted yesterday) reads more to me as mafia trying to buddy onto a clearly dying town.

This conflicts me on Shock, who has been neglecting this game despite posting elsewhere on the internets. I don't find it likely you're both scum. But then again, neglecting a game can be for other reasons besides being intentional. But for now, I will apply pressure to Shock.

Vote: Shock

To answer the Squinty question, I voted for Alt because his play was becoming detrimental to the town. His "experiments" weren't designed at actually catching any scum, as I pointed out yesterday. Additionally when given the chance to do the town thing and claim when at L-1 he still chose to do his own thing instead.

Still trying to adjust to this no posting at work thing...



I wasn't convinced. Really, as simple as that. I thought his behavior was a bit odd - but so was Squinty's last game; hell, so was mine last game.




I have suspects, but there wasn't anybody I was comfortable offing. Also, with the rules in this version, there's no need to join a bandwagon. (That is, Alt would've lynched even at 6 votes, for example.)



I will say, I also had issues with the, "Alt would've been mafia meat anyway." Because I don't see it that way at all. Maybe I just don't get mafia theory, but here's how I saw things. Let's say we lynched alphabet instead, and he flipped town. (I don't know if he would; ride with me here.) Now, in your theory, mafia would kill Alt. But why would they? If that had happened, he'd be a prime suspect today - possibly even getting lynched on day2. That would allow mafia to kill somebody else and have us kill Alt.

So no, I don't think mafia would've killed Alt at all. He was too suspicious for the group as a whole.

*

People I'd like to look closer at (time permitting this weekend), in order of preference:

Shock: I want to re-read that "massclaim" chain of posts again, and then whatever other few posts he's had.
Fel: I want to see if there are any other crazy logic posts like the above. Neo showed last game that town can have bad logic.
Freddeh: Shouldn't take me long - he only has, what, two posts?
C_K: I didn't like some of the interaction with Alt.
alphabet soup: Ditto.

Ah, what I wouldn't do for a few extra hours in the day. Or unblocked internet at work. One of the two...

That fact that shockwave keeps viewing this forum and not posting is annoying.

Shock, can we at least get a 'Im still playing' post from you? And if one doesnt come, can we look at subbing him out?

Letting Alt live for a day shows that we're willing to give him a chance. That's very dangerous for Mafia. He was, after all, asking questions, no matter how much you disliked his methods.The point of not lynching Alt was to see if Mafia would do the job for us. If they don't, it shows to us that he's probably far from the truth, and now we have no reason to keep him alive. Regardless of his alignment (I could say now that I didn't think he was Mafia, but you wouldn't believe me anyway), He asked a lot of questions, and killing him yesterday didn't make the answers that were given more or less true.

TL;DR: Killing him accomplished basically nothing. What is done is already done, though.

If you think I'm Mafia just because I'm pointing out that we, as a team, made a bad move, fine. I still believe in what I'm saying, though.

Been trying to focus on too many things lately (mafia on other sites, real life, 1rst time D&D character creation, ect.), but I am here now.

As noted by Cereal, I have been active on the Internet on other sites, but that is out of game and doesn't help us figure out what is going on in this one. (Just as a note for those who might choose to play mafia on other sites, some mods don't look kindly on using other Internet activity and viewing thread against players). But on to this game.

To answer Cereal's question I think my vote from yesterDay does carry weight. While his play improved Confused maintained pressure on Altimis yesterDay and when it seemed momentum was about to go to another player he pressed again to make the lynch go through.

I'll try to get to any questions asked of me in the morning.

I voted for alt because of his play, and he did do the 'threat' thing about not posting and stuff which I saw akin to s_e and Zherog's actions last game. I do not like that.



I get what you are saying but I think I am starting to get Fel's point, if the mafia didn't off alt then, it would gives us some sort of results from his actions and intentions with the knowledge that he was not killed.

I do agree about the threat near the end. I didn't like that. Having been in a similar position last game - as you point out - I can understand where it comes from, though.





Indeed. Fel's most recent post - made after I said this - makes that clearer.

Your stance presumes 1) that Alt was asking questions (which he wasn't. He was just pointing fingers and then refusing to say anything further, which benefits mafia far more than town), 2) letting Alt live would actually give us some form of tangable information (which it wouldn't. At best you have a 50/50 guess at what the motivation behind the mafia either killing or not killing Alt was), and 3) Alt living would automatically give credibility to his arguments (which it obviously wouldn't).

Given that your post today pretty much just mirrored your post yesterday, you aren't pointing out in hindsight. If you weren't using hindsight yesterday, then the logical conclusion is that you knew Alt would flip town before he died. As I said before, your post reflects somebody trying to buddy onto dying town rather than somebody who actually thinks the lynch is wrong.

Shock, at what point do you feel like pressure was shifting off of Alt?

1) Different words, same thing. Alt was scumhunting, even if you don't like the way he was doing it. It wasn't the first time he demonstrated how unorthodox of a player he is.

2) You're not understanding the concept behind not killing Alt. He was the most active player during day 1. That's huge. Killing him gave us basically nothing beyond his own alignment. We missed the chance to squeeze every bit of information we could from him. Even a guess is better than nothing.

3) Keeping him alive wouldn't make his arguments true, in that we agree. But, the reactions to them would still be worth looking at. Especially how the Mafia would react to it during the night.


It was a gamble, and you're right at acknowledging that. It's better, though, than the situation we have now.

1) Hardly. One requires interactions in which reads can be produced on both sides of the questioning. The other requires no interaction and garners no reads because the intent is not to decipher the truth, but to tank whomever you want without having to take responsibility. You are right in that this isn't the first time that Alt has shown that he isn't MVP material though.
2) No it's not. You are still putting far too much weight into Alt. He didn't have any extra information to dole out. All he had was his reads that aren't made true by his living or being town. We can guess from here whether he was right or not just fine.
3) And we can look at them. He already pointed his fingers and people reacted. As for the mafia, their motivations are private. You cannot expect to reasonably determine why they chose to do what they did, either way.

The only way it would be better is if scum was lynched. Are you claiming to know that the alternative (Shock I believe is your target, no?) is mafia aligned with 100% certainty?

I'm saying that we should lynch Shock since way before people started going to Alt's throat. At the time, it was just because 1) I thought lynching Shock would give more info and 2) I considered Shock's actions more scummy than Alt's. Right now, though, I don't think I can be convinced that Shock's isnt a Goblin.

I'm a little concerned that we haven't heard from Freddeh in the three days Day 2 has been active.

FoS: Freddeh

~SE++

I'm curious if you wouldn't mind expanding on this idea a bit. Why would lynching Shock give more info than lynching Alt?

Honestly - if I'm on the fence between Freddeh and Shockwave (which I am), I'd rather vote for the one that's not posting at all, versus the one who's posting a little. Shock at least made an appearance.
Again, last game, there were no town members as inactive as Freddeh has been.
While I might be getting more of a scum vibe from Shock's posts, that's just since Freddeh hasn't really made any posts....At least with Shock, we've got something to look at closer once we get more information.
For now...however...I'm going to switch:
Unvote:
Vote: Freddeh

Really...is that why you said:



Looks to me like you didn't suspect shock at all and just wanted an info lynch. But now suddenly Shock is definitely scum and nothing anybody says can change your mind. So do tell, what has changed from yesterday to today that gives you a much more definitive and contrasting stance?

Official Vote Count

Shockwave07
felbatista
Cereal_Killer

Freddeh
NeoSilk

11 alive, 6 to lynch.
Will send prods tomorrow somewhere.
Deadline: Mar 1st 7:00 PM GMT+1

It's between shock and freddeh for me as well, but solely based on inactivity. I'm waiting for more of their responses/input before I vote.

So Freddeh isn't too hard for me to go back and take a look at. He has four total posts in the thread. (By comparison, Shock has 12.) One was his confirmation, one was a mostly joke post that also pointed at Shock a bit.

Then there was this one. In it, he votes for Alt because he didn't like Alt's play on page 2. He thought Alt was using fake techniques.

[url=http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2418&sk=a&start=120#p91410]His fourth post came shortly after, after I made a comment about something he said in the above post. I had said I don't mind Day One talk going down to the wire; he said he wanted votes, and offered some reasons.

Overall, his posts don't say much at all to me (and I guess that's not a surprise). More importantly, we can implore him to come join us but I don't really know what we'll accomplish. If he is mafia and hiding behind inactivity, he'll show up and make contentless posts. And I think Freddeh is smart enough to disguise them well enough. If he's town and being so quiet, I'm not sure he's all that useful to us other than as a warm body, really. Nobody's going to trust him at this point if he suddenly shows up and starts posting.

Vote: Freddeh

Also, I will say that I'm struggling to keep up my posting. I'm having no problem finding time to read everything; I'm just finding it difficult to post, since I prefer to read, re-read, copy / paste, etc. I'm still searching out my "new normal" with firewall blockage and such. If at any time my inability to make deeper posts like I have in past games becomes a hindrance, go ahead and vote me off the island; I'll do my best to keep up until that happens, though.