@Garren, I also said the above yesterday.

As for the Witch role presence, as I stated before, there isn't enough information at present to make any sort of educated guess as to how this game's mafia functions. So until further information is presented I will be considering all options and simply lynching whomever I deem to be the scummiest player today. I will not pat myself on the back and tell myself I have more room to breath than I may actually have though. Experience in mafia tells me to function under worst case scenario unless there's proof that that isn't the case. Currently we lack such proof.

VOTES (4 to lynch)
(1) Elijin - KingofDominaria
(1) Rubik - Elijin



DAY ENDS: 108 hours from this post

@15377:
Like you question everything that is said and present other options, I tend to trust people and try to look for inconsistencies between the things said.
They're just different ways of playing the game and I don't think one way is better than the other.
Same with the Witch speculation. You consider it a possibility, where for now I act under the suspicion that it's just a flavor thing and there were simply 2 ghosts present of which 1 is still hopping between players.

But regardless on style of playing, lynching whoever is scummiest is just the same thing. As long as the goals are the same, the route to said goal does not matter imo.

Ignored, Eli?

No. I read your post fully. What I found was that your evaluation of the situation with Rubik was sorely lacking and smelled of an attempt to use as a convenient lynch someone else rather than evaluating other people.

I went after Rubin first because he could have been hiding in plain sight as you say. However Garden made an excellent point in regards to Rubik. Rubik made a great point too. My post where I voted you pretty much explained it.

You ignored it and called for lynching Rubik because there is no way to prove what he says. Except you're wrong. Tomorrow, whoever was possessed can affirm everything Rubik said. So letting Rubik live tonight and someone confirm what he said tomorrow proves what we need. If Rubik is lying, then no one will confirm what he said and we will flat out lynch him. One possessed player was lynched right away so we're ahead as is. There's no reason we can't wait to see if Rubik is truthful.

So, pretty much what I'm saying is you're scummy for trying to push Rubik's lynch given the situation. You're likely the possessed player right now.

VOTES (4 to lynch)
(1) Elijin - KingofDominaria
(1) Rubik - Elijin



DAY ENDS: 86 hours from this post

Day ends when either a majority of votes is gathered or the deadline is reached.

Anybody got anything else to add? Or are we just going to wait for deadline to close in and then bandwagon one of these guys for lynch?

I see the merit in lynching Rubik under the possibility he's lying. I don't particularly find Eli scummy, all things considered. I would, however, rather see both of these guys live. As I said earlier I will vote for who I will find scummiest and that vote will not change unless it's necessary to create a lynch (which it shouldn't be without other people refusing to vote for a lynch) or new information is presented before deadline and things are evaluated differently.

Vote: Scar

Well it is the weekend. Talk generally drops off regardless of what were doing. Plus 86 hours gives us at least a couple of days to get things rolling. That said not entirely sure who I want to vote for;

• I'm obviously not voting for myself
• I know Scarlet is town.
• I'm 95% certain Rubik is town.
• Neo has a slight town lean and I want him to live one more day at least.

Guess that leaves Elijin, KoD and Numbers. Hmm.

Vote: 15377

VOTES (4 to lynch)
(1) Elijin - KingofDominaria
(1) Rubik - Elijin
(1) GobO_Scarlet - 15377
(1) 15377 - Garren_Windspear



DAY ENDS: 75.5 hours from this post

MODNOTE: Well if it isn't snow it's something else. I have some IRL issues that came up today. It should resolve tomorrow, but there is potential that it could get worse instead. I'm posting here just as an FYI, and I will be PMing zinger as well.

I will keep you guys as updated as possible.

@Garren, I took the weekend into account. We were 86ish hours in the early bits of Saturday for me. By the time the weekend resolves, half of that time will be gone and we'll be looking at closer to two days till deadline. If we assume the final 24 will be consumed mostly with blatant bandwagonry, that'll give us about a day to do something after the weekend before we start shifting down. I won't hold my breath that much will change in a day.
Also, you don't know Scar is town. You know he's not possessed, per your claim. But if, by your theory, scum is just a person jumping possession, then everybody is town really so you shouldn't have a problem lynching anybody because come tomorrow all your reads will be void anyway.

Incorrect. So stupidly incorrect. I know Scarlet is town *today* - why in the nine hells would I execute them today? For today they are above suspicion. Yeah I know there alignment may shift tomorrow. But that has no damned effect on today. What is with your weak logic today? I can't think of a single thing you've said today that actually had a single note of merit.

@Numbers:

I don't get why you don't see Eli as scummy. Eli's desire to see Rubik lynched keeps us from obtaining more information. Look at it this way: Rubik revealed he was possessed. We already killed one possessed. If Rubik is to live, then someone has to confirm what he said tomorrow. If they don't, he dies. If they do, we get information we wouldn't necessarily get unless the scenario (as painted by others who believe Rubik) is as we say it is.

If Rubik is indeed scum perma-scum, then he dies unless a scum buddy of his pipes up to speak on his behalf. PopPa already died as scum. If we believe there are more than 2 scum now, then we'll know who the extra one is (even if the extra scum buddy was generated through a one-shot ability to be created as Eli put out there). If the extra scum buddy is created through a Blood Witch and can keep being created, we have no hope of winning anyway as nonpossessed players.

This is why it is better to let Rubik live and see what occurs tomorrow. Eli believes otherwise and I think it is because he's possessed today. After all, Rubik did claim to be the medic of the group. If this is true, Rubik is guaranteed to die -- and, unlike Rubik's thinking from D1, I don't think we have an extra doc in this game. We, for sure, had a role stopper. You claimed cop and Rubik claimed doc. If we do have an extra doc in the mix, that just makes for a bastard-like way of determining who to kill with two docs in play (and that is assuming both docs are not honest at the same time). So we'll for sure see either you or Rubik dying barring extreme bastard setup with the roles.

That's how I see it anyway.

But yeah, rather than come to a no lynch today, you should also support an Eli lynch. If anything, he's much more quiet than Scar has been this game, and that could be due to a variety of reasons.

@Garren, not possessed isn't a guarantee that your original alignment is town, just a guarantee that they aren't possessed. You don't know scar is town. You just know he's not possessed. You assume that makes him town.

@KoD, I'm aware of the benefit of leaving rubs alive. That's why I said I'd rather see them both live but will vote either if it's necessary. I disagree that he has to be alive for us to garner said information though. Say he dies today and flips town. He gets cred. Whoever is possessed today isn't going to fear coming out tomorrow because rubs already has cred and they will have that in their defense. You are still likely to get the information you want, making his life not so important and those that disagree with you far less scummy for doing so.

There you go again numbers.

We have confirmed Possessed alignment and Honest alignment.
Occam's razor dictates that Possessed = scum and Honest = town. Because Honest died overnight.
Also, win condition for Honest is that Possessed don't leave the tomb.
There is also no reason at all to assume there is another alignment in play.

So it really is not a stretch to assume that I am town today (no guarantees for later because of the roulation theory, which we will probably figure out tomorrow).

On the issue of alignment:

What Scar said. "Town" and "Mafia" are not alignments in this game. The "town" in this game is the honest players. The "mafia" in this this game is the possessed.

@Numbers:

Rubik's life is that important. You mentioned one particular scenario where he is being honest. What I said earlier keeps in mind the whole "he may be lying" thing. IF, and that is a big if, Rubik is lying scum, it is best to let him live and see who attempts to clear him tomorrow because the person who clears him (Note: Keep in mind, I'm talking about a scenario where Rubik is lying) has to be scum with him. So we gain knowledge we wouldn't necessarily gain if we killed him today and his new partner does not come out because why repeat what Rubik did?

Course there is one big glaring problem with the whole Rubik lying thing. Why even out himself in the first place if he can recruit someone (as per Eli's scenario)? He could just keep himself hidden in the shadows and continue to kill people with his new buddy. No, it's much more likely Rubik is telling the truth.

Scar can understand the whole "what is more likely" perspective here. Which is good because when Eli through out the argument that maybe Rubik is being ballsy and hiding in plain sight as a defense to the idea, I just find that stupid. I'm not saying scum can't and won't hide in plain sight. I'm sure it happens. But hiding in plain sight by saying you were scum AND that you killed someone? That's like standing next to a spotlight and that spotlight is the sun. No, a good example of hiding in plain sight would be Numbers being a perma scum that claimed cop variant. He's in plain sight, but you won't outright put him on the chopping block because he claimed cop.

@Numbers again:

One thing is missing from you.

I know why you would rather Rubik live since you understand the situation. You never said why you wanted Eli to live too though. Why is that? Especially since you butted heads with him hard D1.

Here is a part of your logic which is interesting to me.

If you accept everything Rubik says entirely on faith, then you also accept that even if your accusations about me being scum are correct, I wont be scum tomorrow.
Which means your logic of 'Elijin just wants Rubik to die because scum want the doc to die!' is inherently flawed. If I was town yesterday and scum today, as you're suggesting, I'd know Im town tomorrow. Why on earth would I want to kill the doctor?

These boards have already had a game with a one time use 'reserve/spread mafia to one player' mechanic. As such, I do not just take it in faith that we can totes wait for Rubik to do as he pleases and then have someone pipe up tomorrow. The only way to reliably put Rubik's claim to the test, without just blindly hoping there is not a scheme in place, is to have him flip. I mean hell, I know if I was scum, I'd be laughing my ass off planning to come out tomorrow with the exact same line Rubik spun. Sure as hell seems to have won him immunity today.

Oh right, its won him immunity today, guess that answers KoD's 'Why would he bother speaking up!?' query. Because its been accepted totally as too crazy to be a gambit. You're currently viewing him as beyond suspicion, while asking why he would take the risk he has? Brilliant. And jesus, KoD. "We should keep him alive so his scum buddy can reveal tomorrow!". So tell me, are you announcing intent to lynch Rubik tomorrow, or whoever puts their hand up? Because until there is a flip, you cant substantiate what he's saying. So you've just more or less said 'I plan on killing Rubik or whoever agrees with Rubik tomorrow, to test Elijin's theory.'

I cant speak for why Numbers wants me to live, but maybe its because Im one of the only players being critical, rather than playing happy families and just saying 'Okay, yes, neato' to everyone's claims. Because I want to see definitive information about an incredibly wild claim.

Also +10 douche points for making a 'Elijin is inactive' point after I pre-confirmed I would be inactive during the weekend. (In my timezone it is now 11:30pm Sunday evening. Also if I unwittly rambled, its because Im tired af)

If we trust Rubik, we indeed assume that you won't be scum tomorrow if you are today.
But we also assume (because of last day) that the possessed players are the mafia and getting rid of possessed players at that moment means there will be less ghosts to possess the players at later days.
So how we will act/be tomorrow should have no bearing on how we act this day. Which is what I also implied earlier in my previous post.
So the 'I will be town tomorrow'-defense is flawed. Because based on Rubiks claim, that is true for anyone accused.
Also, if no-one speaks up tomorrow, we'll probably just kill Rubik anyway (depending on how the rest plays out). But the point is that the one who is possessed today will speak up tomorrow. Because that person will be town at that time, there is quite a big chance that he will speak up to protect Rubik, the claimed doc.

We're in a 9-player game. How big are the odds that there were 3 scum? So your theoretical 'other mafiate'-theory is also kinda flawed (because the odds are there, even if they are slim).

I also think numbers just wants me dead. He doesn't care that much about you

EBWOP.