I'm just sad that niklor acted so badly d1 without a real reason, had I managed to be the counterwagon as I planned, I'd have just moved the votes to the competing wagon.

if you think that an ability that makes the entire mafia team bulletproof and gives everyone in the town a one-shot NK isn't worth using then you're probably just being paranoid because it seems too good to be true.

Bear in mind Zipper's role got outed. You're basically asking him to confirm himself as scum by just protecting only scum and no town to do like you said.

he could talk his way out of it

And someone could argue against it.

and the end result would be many dead townies, the mafia having control of the vote, and minimal suspicion potentially being drawn to you.

Or the end result could be only 1 kill or no kills depending entirely on who gets targeted. And that's assume we, the mafia, put everyoen else outside of sanctuary and not ourselves thereby drawing suspicion as to why Zipper didn't use the ability on them if townie.

Tbh once zipper flips mafia pk can just claim that ability, use it and be softcleared because of how it interacts with zipper role.

And your chosen zipper targets were scummy as hell anyway so...

At the time i was going to be suspicious of zipper if he KEPT using the ability, and i believe i recommended to him that he not use it anymore because it roleblocks people and potentially doesn't save them from the modkill. From my perspective, not being jailored would have made sense from a town zipper perspective.

I don't know how others felt at the time though, and i don't know how others would feel after the killfest went down, and i don't know how the dialogue following the killfest would have influenced those unknown feelings.

I do think that its not an exceptionally risky move to play. The biggest risk is in the town somehow eventually finding out that zipper targeted only two people (because ideally he'd say he didn't target anyone at all if pressed to, although he'd probably get away with not claiming at all), in which case he'd have to come up with a convincing reason for why it seemed like he targeted you two on the night he did.

There's a lot of contingencies though, I don't think its a risky play for that reason, at least.

I stand by my earlier statement that town deserved it's lose this game, but I do have to question if they could have won even if they played better. The break down in numbers alone makes it questionable, with selfs comprising one less player than town and just one more than mafs. While the selfs are slightly motivised to seek out scum with AWWLI, their survivor clause is going to drive them more to not make any large splashes. With one mislynch and one maf kill, town loses the ability to be the majority factor behind the lynch if no selfs are hit. Town's power amounts to basically a doc, essentially a one shot day vig (HW), a full night vig (neo), and a copycat (Fable slot). JaC's role is basically a do nothing unless the game comes into a mexican stand off and fable's doesn't amount to much either unless he's targeted, which would require him to basically make a target of himself. Conversely the maf team could basically shut down the town by just having Zipper shroud KoD and PaK every night and have PaK turn off the night Vig. They could then just wait out the six night clause in Zipper's role and focus all their attention on just not being scummy enough to be the lynch focus. Town's only answer for this would be HW's ability used to take out Zipper but with no town role to put people on Zipper's trail in the first place it'd have to decidedly be a hunch move. Overall I feel like town's play had to follow a certain narrative in when abilities should be used and how in order to win whereas they should have more variance in how they can play and still be successful. My two cents anyway.

That's probably fair.

I feel like the game was far more interesting due to Zipper getting in trouble D1. It may have been really easy otherwise.

From my perspective it was a challenging game.

Congrats scumteam on a flawless victory.

I nailed the scum team... and in the end I sided with them anyway when PK asked me to in our QT. He didn't outright state he was Mafia, but it was pretty obvious as the discussion continued.

Anyway, this was a bastard game from hell and I'm not at all convinced it is at all balanced. It would take scum playing as badly as town did while town played flawlessly and even then I'm not sure town could win.

I'm done. **** you KoD. You went out of your way to ensure this was as miserable as possible for me. Congratulations. **** you.

I suppose the silver lining in that is that I won't be wasting any more of my life with Mafia.

Bye all. I'll keep reading for a few days to see what others have to say, but then I'm gone.

i had fun playing with you again ahlyis and i am glad to see that you haven't changed too much

good luck with the rest of your life

I was not really a fan of my role.
Especially with all the swingy stuff and Zinger's protective ability. How would there ever be a final 3?
Felt like vanilla town mostly.

I also tried really hard to ignore the ragequits. That didn't help the game either.

Always nice dying twice n1 due to being a threat. Who the hell tried to get me to kill Neo btw?

Also how does zipper ever not get lynched d2 after claiming an op role and people still dying n1?

It was how PK night-killed you.

I didn't like the way you responded to my 3p bait + didn't think it would be easy to push you into the HW wagon, so I murdered you

Also I don't know lol but that was basically the whole game was gambling on the idea we could keep him alive

Oh wow. Haha look who's playing mafia.

Rubik is a convincing person

Hey Rubik. Can you post entire design file so I don't have to sift through 70+ pages to see all the roles?