OOC: lol
You noticed I kept removing it huh?

I forgotten I'd posted it! I was like, what is this guy's angle??? So confused. Very nice.

In Px2 most games did allow mafia to talk outside of night. Cause of timezone shenanigans and stuff.

That said, mods never really stated if either was the case, unless you were mafia yourself.

Carry on.

This is a game that I am in. And its rather busy for a day 1 for once!

My thought process is along a similar line as Rsts, I was reading through page 2 and thought that Altimis was putting out too many 'fake' scumhunting techniques (the 'trap' on SE, posting reads on a couple people and then asking what others thought about them, etc), and just generally caring a bit too much about what others think of HIM, instead of what he thinks of others.

Vote: Alt

That said, while this seems like almost too easy of a vote, I find it interesting that no less than three people have expressed a dislike of Alts actions, but not voted for him.

Past that, Confused is confusing me as usual, I like Felbastia in general as town, and I like Zherog in general as town. Everyone else is neutral due to either not talking much, or being rather vanilla when they do talk. Rst being the exception, and I'm probably leaning more town on him as well.

Its day 1 folks, less spinning wheels talking about little nothings, and more voting!

Yeah, because one vote doesn't kill people.
Seven votes kills people.

That feels like it should be a saying somewere, maybe on Survivor?

And it is getting late, I thought it was four days in, but it's roughly four days left instead.
Though many people have decided to vote for shockwave07, I can tell there is bad blood between rstnme and me; I don't think both of us are going to survive the day. Given most people are siding with rstnme, I can assume where this is heading.

Anyways, we appear to be the top contestants for discussion, mostly me and shockwave. However, given I don't think Shock is scummy and I won't vote myself. I will vote for rstnme. If you guys want answers, it seems that the best information-giving votes would be between rstnme and me.

VOTE: rstnme

If you guys want my suspects list, keep me alive. If you don't, then lynch me. As of now, I have nothing else to add regarding the major conversations of today.

rstnme, the gloves are off. I smacketh thee with mine.

So my wife had the idea that I should go shovel the 10-12 inches of snow before I posted my reads. Sheesh...

before that:



I know, right? This is a nice change of pace.



I feel the opposite. I don't mind one bit taking Day One down to the deadline, especially since Scarlet will have a lynch party for us even if we don't come to a consensus. Especially with all the talking going on, having a long first day is - in my opinion, obviously - a good thing.

Beyond Day One, I'm not at all a fan of the "quick lynch," as seen last game when I refused to hop on the Squinty bandwagon. That doesn't mean we need t drag every day out to the deadline. Anything shorter than 3 day, for me, is too fast. Between 3 and 6-ish is a case-by-case basis. Six or more is fine.

*

OK, so, reads... these are my "top of my head" comments. There are a few folks I want to go back and look at closer, but that'll have to wait. I'll be posting comments in the order they appear in the player list in the first post.

Neo: Seems consistent with his play style from last game. Also seems interested in having conversations, which includes sharing his own thoughts rather than jus steering. Strong town lean.

Garren: Hasn't said much. Or at least, I don't remember him saying much. On my list to review. Neutral, maybe slight scum lean.

rstnme: Another I want to look at again. My spider sense is tingling a bit here.

altimis: And another. At the moment, I think one of alt and alphabet-soup is mafia. I lean toward alt, but I definitely want to review the two of them.

Freddeh: Been pretty quiet until today, which is a shame. I believe Freddeh is one of our more experienced players, so seeing more insights from him would be nice.

Confused: So add me to the list of people who has never been good at reading Confused. I lean town at the moment. But that's likely to change, and then change again, before the game is over.

squinty_eyes: Squintster leans town to me. Much like with Neo, I get a sense of familiarity with his overall posting style. Even before van took the mod bullet last game, I was pretty strongly in Squinty's camp. And so as long as I keep getting the same sort of vibe, I'm sticking with it.

Zherog: Dude seems shifty to me. Doesn't post all week, then throws up a wall of text? Seriously? Ugh...

felbatista: I'm slightly suspicious, but still would put him in the town category if I had to vote one way or the other right now. I'll be looking closer.

Cereal_Killer: As said in the wall o' text, I'll be looking here. Alt's comment that he's "latching on" is something I can look at and form my own opinion on, which will speak toward one or the other being mafia I think.

Shockwave07: I know a lot of people didn't like the "what do you think of a massclaim" post, but for whatever it's worth it sure did get conversation rolling. I have a pretty strong town feeling on shock.

Elijin: I know he's made posts, but he's almost like a ghost in that I don't really have any recollection of him. And given my limited experience, I'm starting to think being at least suspicious of people who don't make any impression at all is a good plan.

So, that's top of my head opinions on everybody. Going with the "top 3" which still seems popular, I'd say one of Alt and rstnme, C_K, and Elijin. Obviously, subject to change as more posts come up and as I find time for research.

I know it isn't exactly a vote or anything but mind if I ask why the scum lean? Is it simply the case that people who don't say much are more likely to be scum? I feel like I missing something here.

Of course I mind! What the hell kind of question is that?!?

Er, wait... no, wrong answer. Sorry. No, not a problem.

I generally don't subscribe to the "quiet people are scum" theory. Freddeh, for example, has also been quiet and I didn't say I lean that way with him. I can't point to a specific "why" moment, but I get the hunch you're almost afraid to post thoughts, like they'll betray you. Crazy talk, I know. Worth mentioning, too, is that you weren't in my top 3.

I've read your posts. They go from simply saying rst has displayed suspicious behavior, with no examples given. To saying he's aggressive, with no examples given. To saying he was less calm than squinty, despite multiple posts conveying the exact same message that squinty conveyed with additional reactions to your refusal to give any sort of details, which is divergent in your behavior with squinty on your part and would require divergence on rst's. You have yet to show rst either being irrational or aggressive, so your posts amount to baseless arguments thrown into the wind to see how far they will carry themselves, which is, again, scummy.



So it didn't fit your profile, therefore wasn't worth mentioning, yet you are trying to build an emotional state on rst, which requires all things to be considered, not whatever you feel you can make relevant to the point you are trying to make, which was my point. You aren't trying to scum hunt, you're trying to create a false viewing of rst by providing tidbits of information and misdirection.



You misunderstand what I mean by trap Z. What I was saying is that it was a loaded question. You assign value to expected answers. Example: If you take the premise that fat kids love cake and ask the question "Who wants cake for dessert?" you aren't trying to goad people into eating cake. You look at the respective answers, the kids that say "Cake!" are likely to be the fat kids mentioned in your premise. Those denying cake are likely to be not. Those that say, "I don't think we should eat cake, but if everybody else is going to eat cake, I'll eat cake too." are probably scum. Just sayin.

Please, by all means, use ALL of my posts to prove that I am scummy.
Or, would you rather pick out the pieces that make me look scummy?

Just because something ISN'T scummy, doesn't mean it IS town.
You can post scummy; you can post towny; or you can post neutral. It isn't just town or scum.


I've already pointed out my reasoning. Their reactions are different. You, yourself, accused me of not reading into the posts (which I have been by the way), and when there is evidence of it you take the shallow interpretation of the posts yourself.
Hypocrites read as scummy.
People who ask for proof and then deny it read as scummy.

I find it strange that you haven't yet voted for me despite your apparent "scumhunting" nit-picking of me; so I'll go out and call you on it. You are hoping others vote for me first, that way you and your scum buddies can seal the deal.

OOC: Is numbers playing this game? I've seen people referencing the previous games, and I'm kind of wondering who was who?

If it's going to come down to Shock vs rstnme vs altimis, my vote will go to rstnme. I get the feeling one of them is scum, but both Shock and altimis are both veterans of the game, and it's been my experience that keeping people like that around always increase town's odds. So, gun to my head, I'd have to go with rstnme for now, but I'll refrain from putting the vote down just because I'm gonna be out ALL day tomorrow and wouldn't be able to change my vote if too many people throw in and someone might get lynched prematurely. Also, it's already come up about me and altimis, but what if altimis and rstnme are putting on a show as well? It's been a suspicion in the other games I've been a part of thus far that hasn't ever panned out, but it's a possibility. Just another thought.

~SE++

Thanks for clarifying.

Also, everybody knows pie is better.

No you haven't. You've done nothing but apply subjective emotions without going into why their responses are different. Conversely I've looked at how they are the same without trying to apply guess work on what the author was feeling when it was penned. Given how I'm using logic and you're just applying whatever word you feel like to rst's and squinty's posts, I hardly see how I'm being hypocritical.
I've asked you for three things. To show what ideas I've latched on to. You've ignored this. To provide your motivation behind suspecting confused initially. You've also ignored this. And to show how rst has been aggressive. You haven't shown a single post where rst was actually aggressive, but did add words to quotes by him to make it seem he was more aggressive than he actually was. So you could say I'm still waiting on any of those proofs.

It's called giving you a chance to defend yourself. See I tend to operate discussion like this: Provide thesis - Provide supporting argumentation - Wait for counter argumentation - Critically read counter argumentation - Develop counter points as necessary or provide clarification on muddied points - Come to a verdict once the discussion has run it's course.
I find this method is far more effective than simply throwing around subjective terminology that I've come to baselessly.

I can argue all night, but if everything I say is going to be ignored, you bet I'm going to stop eventually.
Go back and read my posts. I've answered all of the issues that you brought up.

If you really think I'm trying to hide something, then lynch me. Enough of this banter and cast your vote. The only thing I can say is that thankfully this is happening day 1 and not the last days like last time. People actually have time to go through the posts for themselves.

On the one hand, shock is keeping his head down and letting the heat move away from him, which is sort of shady.

But more importantly than that, and I might cop flak for this, but one of our experienced players is already implying that he's reaching a 'Im done posting, work it out yourself' point. On day 1. That alone makes me consider lynching him, town or scum aside, just because
a) its not useful to anyone.
b) it cost the town game previously.

As to the back and forth between alt and CK, its hard to pin either way. Alt could be getting agitated because he's desperate to not be taken out first round, which to me only a mafia or a significant power role would be that concerned. I mean it sucks to be out of the game, but a vanilla I dont feel would get so desperate because they're at least furthering the game, day 1.

On the other hand, CK is winding him up in his approach. Which could be incidental, or could be on purpose to push alt in a corner and have people focus on him.

But mostly the other point. If alt sticks to the 'Im done posting, work it out yourselves' route he's implying is coming, then I am pro lynching him.

Yet another person not reading my posts.
1) I said (and I can't quote from my mobile, but it's roughly three of my posts back) I had nothing else to add regarding today's major discussions.
2) I said last post, I can argue all night, but if I'm gonna be ignored I'm gonna stop. That's referencing arguing.

Give me something new, I'm gonna post about it. Keep bringing up things I've already posted about, I won't. As I've already discussed with Confused, I'm not one for repeat, repeat, repeat. I like to add to the conversation.

You guys can corner me all you like, but because I use facts, cornering me isn't going to change anything.

Im not trying to corner you. You can paint it any way you like.

Your post I was referencing ended with you saying enough banter, and calling for a vote. Then directly referenced the fact that the previous game had a shutdown between two experienced players, and you said at least this time its only day 1.

Maybe it is only day 1, so it isnt as hurtful, but it still shows that you're likely to repeat this over the course of the game.

Wow....quite a bit of D1 chatter going on.

Lots to digest, and, as I'm able to later, I'll go through things more closely.

Initial thoughts - I get why people are focusing on Alt - however, to me, it looks more like scumhunting than anything else - I'm not saying he's town, but, based on his back and forth, he's leaning more towards town than mafia, in my eyes.

Zherog - his analysis seems to be very consistent with how he played the last game. It could just be a distraction, trying to play as mafia the same way he played as town, but, as of now, I see nothing to lead me to believe that he's doing anything other than scumhunting - strong town lean here.

Freddeh - this one is tough. I keep getting a feeling that I'm missing something here. The "easy vote" comment against Alt has me confused. Seeing that I (currently) believe that Alt is town, that makes Freddeh seem more suspicious in my eyes. Add the fact that he's "leaning town" on rstnme as well...

Rstnme - lots of smallish posts. I can agree with his logic here (around mafia often being silent or accusing people), but again, if I believe that Alt is town, this makes it more suspect in my eyes.

Shock - while it's only been 1.5 days or so since his last post, I want to hear him weigh in. As Elijin said here, it kind of seems like he's stepped away from things - there might be other things going on in his life, but I want to hear his thoughts - leaning scum, until I do.

CK - also on the alt wagon. Right now, I'm leaning town, as he seems to be hunting, but, if alt is lynched, and flips town, CK will move up quite a bit on my suspect list.

Elijin - I find myself agreeing with most of his logic. Again, if Alt flips town (without a role), I'll have to look much closer. Otherwise, like I said, most of his logic seems to make sense.

Confused - what can I say, I'm confused. He seems to be providing more thoughts than last game, which could be a good town sign. Tough to call right now, right now, I could go either way, but slightly leaning town.

Garren - I literally have no read on him. No votes, little chatter - either someone trying to figure out the game, or scum trying really hard to watch what he says. I'd like to see him weigh in on where he leans for some others before I decide - but, without more info, I have to lean mafia there.

SE - I agree with his "If it's going to come down to Shock vs rstnme vs altimis, my vote will go to rstnme." of course, there's nothing saying that it has to be one or the other of them. Since i was well off last game with my thoughts on him, I'm really not sure. If rst gets the vote, and flips town, I'll have to look closer at SE. If Alt gets the vote and flips scum, then SE will be high on my list.

Fel - again, seems like scumhunting to me...he's asking good questions and I've not seen any logic flaws yet. Leaning town.

As we're getting closer to the end of the day, I think it's time to start voting.

Right now, I think getting to the bottom of the rstnme/Alt debate will give us the most info.
Since I think it's more likely that Alt is town....

Vote: rstnme

I never said YOU were cornering me. I was just stating that as you had commented on it.

I was referencing that last time this happened, there was two days left in the round, and a bazillion posts to go through. If you are suggesting that I suicided to get out of the game you are mistaken. I did it to prove I was town. Proving I'm town now would solve nothing because it's day one. Everything is speculation.

What's hurtful is that many people are asking to be spoon-fed answers, and nobody is suspecting them of being suspicious.

That is far more hurtful than someone who has already shown plans moving forwards in the game, set a trap, and experimented.

Im not saying you intentionally got yourself out of the game last time, Im just concerned that you reached a point where yourself and another player were too stubborn to continue discourse, turned around to a new player and put it on him to backtrack and work it out. Im not against him having to backtrack and work it out either, each player should always try and keep their head above the water to whats whats, and do their best to follow. I am extremely against any break down of communication though. The whole game is built on the cornerstone of constant discourse, and any time that slams to a halt, it all gets thrown into limbo until someone makes a potentially arbitrary choice to throw things back into gear.

So by all means, get frustrated by people not grasping your point, and think them a bit silly and maybe even suspicious for not seeing what you do, or dragging it out. But dont shut down, or threaten/imply you're going to shut down. Even if you're just giving bite sized answers, its best to keep things moving, and information flowing.

Because a lot of the time when those limbos happen, it is going to be an arbitrary decision made. Because some people have reached a point where they dont continue or compromise their position, while others have failed to be swayed either way. And without more information, those unswayed parties will often end up making an uninformed choice just so the game moves again.

So please, bear with everyones questions, whether they be stupid, inane or repeats. Just pace yourself answering them, if they're an issue.