The breakdowns would look like this:

Eli survives to meet second condition:
+Mafia win: Mafia and Eli win. Town, SK, and Eli loses.
+Town win: Town and Eli win, Eli wins again. Mafia and SK lose.
+SK win: SK and Eli win. Town, Eli, and mafia lose.

Eli doesn't survive:
+Mafia win: Mafia win. Everybody else loses.
+Town win: Town and Eli win. Everybody else and Eli loses.
+SK win: SK wins. Everybody else loses.

At no point in the game does selling out the town benefit Eli, as that automatically puts an tally in his loss column and makes himself a blatant target for town to remove, harming his chances of winning even more. This role is often split and offered as a double win, however, to deter people from playing it as a self aligned role. If you have to survive and have town win in order to get one "W" (which is how the role debuted), then your focus is going to be on surviving and not focusing on the town win until after you achieve that. But by splitting the role, it allows greater participation by the player without costing him his entire win if he gets picked off early.

Okay so what exactly does it mean that Eli can both win and lose at the same time? I don't get how that's a thing. I understand *how* it can happen but what does that even mean? How can two factions win this game - especially if one of them is dead. I think we have very different definitions of what winning is.



I meant after he hits his survival point. At that point he can do pretty much whatever he feels like - he's won regardless of anything else that happens. Whether he wins stood next to town or next to mafia it makes no difference - the illustrious 'double-win' has no more value then a single win. The moment he hits that point you might as well remove him from the game for as much as it matters to him. That's what I meant about not seeing how this isn't a neutral ability.

Two factions don't win the game. One faction and one player do. The second win con isn't factional, it's personal.

As for what you think about the aftermath of the first "W", you're right. Eli might not care. Other people do though. It's really a Timmy/Johnny/Spike conversation. Some people will greed that double "W". Some people will be satisfied striving for only one, and the Johnny's of the world will strive for both, but won't care if they only get one. But we don't design games to cater to only one of these types of players. Some people love the roles they end up with, some people hate them. That's just the luck of the draw.

I knew it, it had to be you.