No Goblins Allowed
http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/

[DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=77		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  draco1119 [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
Books allowed: SRD, PHB2, MM2, Complete... series, ECS, Races of: Destiny, Eberron, Stone, Wild, MIC
Houserules: NO FULL TIER 1s!, start at level 3, 1500 XP for a 1-3 page backstory, no XP penalty for multi-classing

Looking to change a published adventure for the first go-around
Encounter 1: six dire rats (EL 2)
Encounter 2: eight kobolds (EL 3)
Encounter 3: 1 werewolf, 1 wererat, four fiendish dire rats

I'm planning to leave encounter 1 unchanged, change encounter 2 to a kobold sorcerer 2 plus skeletons (maybe Karrnathi?), and change the fiendish dire rats in encounter 3 to zombie dire rats. Thoughts and/or advice?
Author:  Zherog [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
draco1119 wrote:
Books allowed: SRD, PHB2, MM2, Complete... series, ECS, Races of: Destiny, Eberron, Stone, Wild, MIC


Looks like a quite reasonable list of sources. I generally say that I'll consider odds and ends from other sources, but get my permission first. That way, if (for example) there's an interesting prestige class in Dungeonscape that the player thinks fits his theme, I can give the :thumbsup: or :thumbsdown: on just that small piece of content. But that's me.

One thing to watch is that MM2 is actually 3.0 so there will need to be some converting there (assuming a 3.5 game).

Quote:
Houserules: NO FULL TIER 1s!, start at level 3, 1500 XP for a 1-3 page backstory, no XP penalty for multi-classing


I don't know why, but talk of tiers makes me twitch a little. Maybe because it assumes all groups play the same basic way, and that's just not true. So that houserule depends entirely on your group. If you're like me and the player most likely to play the wizard absolutely loves chucking fireballs and flaming spheres and such, you don't really need the restriction. If you have a player who will go in and create a CoDzilla right off the bat, then turning things down at the start is good.

Is the 1500 XP bribe in addition to what they have at 3rd level? (No book so I can't look that up.) If so, can they turn around and spend that 1500 on item crafting before the game starts, so they have more equipment but less XP?

No multiclass penalty is a good rule. You could look to import Pathfinder's solution and give a bonus for taking a favored class. PF gives +1 hp or +1 skill point at each level you take your favored class. You make the decision each time you level up. You'd have to change the rule to give 4 skill points at level one, to keep pace with 3.5's skill system. Just an idea for you.

Quote:
Looking to change a published adventure for the first go-around
Encounter 1: six dire rats (EL 2)
Encounter 2: eight kobolds (EL 3)
Encounter 3: 1 werewolf, 1 wererat, four fiendish dire rats

I'm planning to leave encounter 1 unchanged, change encounter 2 to a kobold sorcerer 2 plus skeletons (maybe Karrnathi?), and change the fiendish dire rats in encounter 3 to zombie dire rats. Thoughts and/or advice?


The power of that last encounter is going to depend strongly on the lycanthropes. In particular, what class levels they have. It will also depend, in part, on your tactics for that group compared to your players' tactics. If they're terribad at tactical planning, you're likely to have a really touch encounter there, even if the class levels are on the low side for the weres. So just keep that in mind as you plan (assuming you know their play style).
Author:  Cyclone_Joker [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
draco1119 wrote:
Books allowed: SRD, PHB2, MM2, Complete... series, ECS, Races of: Destiny, Eberron, Stone, Wild, MIC
No ToB? No ToM? No Incarnum? No ToB Not even Dungeonscape/It's ... Outside? And no ToB?

Also, MMII is one of the worst books printed. It's even worse than Complete Divine/Warrior.
Quote:
Houserules: NO FULL TIER 1s!,
Okay. Doesn't solve the problems. A well-built sorcerer is going to dominate.
Quote:
1500 XP for a 1-3 page backstory,
This is problematic. It strikes me as needlessly restrictive, especially if you're using a module and the players know the setting. I can make a backstory in half a page if I know the setting, or even less. This is even more problematic if this module is one-shot, because why bother on characters that you'll never use again?
Quote:
I'm planning to leave encounter 1 unchanged, change encounter 2 to a kobold sorcerer 2 plus skeletons (maybe Karrnathi?), and change the fiendish dire rats in encounter 3 to zombie dire rats. Thoughts and/or advice?
Unless the lycanthropes are casters, given your book selection, I'm having a hard time seeing them matter much. I can't see those being too threatening.
Zherog wrote:
Quote:
Houserules: NO FULL TIER 1s!, start at level 3, 1500 XP for a 1-3 page backstory, no XP penalty for multi-classing
I don't know why, but talk of tiers makes me twitch a little. Maybe because it assumes all groups play the same basic way, and that's just not true.
It just assumes the ability to analyze the system. Maybe I'm weird, but that hardly seems like a rare trait.
Quote:
No multiclass penalty is a good rule. You could look to import Pathfinder's solution and give a bonus for taking a favored class. PF gives +1 hp or +1 skill point at each level you take your favored class. You make the decision each time you level up. You'd have to change the rule to give 4 skill points at level one, to keep pace with 3.5's skill system. Just an idea for you.
It doesn't dodge the problem with unfortunate implications. The very concept of favored classes sounds like it belongs in the late 19th century.
Author:  squinty_eyes [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
draco1119 wrote:
Houserules: NO FULL TIER 1s!

Perhaps I'm just that far behind, but what does this mean?

~SE++
Author:  Zherog [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
Basically, wizards, druids, and clerics.

"Tiers" was a project to group classes by their relative potential power. Tier 1 is essentially, "Can easily break the game in the hands of a smart player." Tier 2 - which I believe is where sorcerers fall - is essentially, "Can break the game with a bit of work by a smart player."

One of the big things the system was meant to measure was how easily you can do someone else's job. For example, a druid can wild shape into a bear and totally make the fighter obsolete - the druid would be a better fighter, and would still have spellcasting. This drives up the druid's value. On a related note, the fighter doesn't really do anything except stab you with a pointy stick / bash you with a mace-like object / sling ranged projectiles at you. They can't do anything else - they don't have skills to take watch or find stuff or be the party face, etc. They're only job is stab things, and they aren't even the best at it. And so that drives the fighter's value way down on the list.

That's a basic summary, anyway.
Author:  Cyclone_Joker [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
squinty_eyes wrote:
draco1119 wrote:
Houserules: NO FULL TIER 1s!

Perhaps I'm just that far behind, but what does this mean?

~SE++
Wizards, Druids, Clerics, Archivists, Erudites, and Artificers. Special mention goes to Sorcerers and Warlocks post-level 12.

But, basically, it's a class that can do basically any damn thing it wants, and do it better than anyone else.
Author:  draco1119 [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
Zherog wrote:
draco1119 wrote:
Books allowed: SRD, PHB2, MM2, Complete... series, ECS, Races of: Destiny, Eberron, Stone, Wild, MIC


Looks like a quite reasonable list of sources. I generally say that I'll consider odds and ends from other sources, but get my permission first. That way, if (for example) there's an interesting prestige class in Dungeonscape that the player thinks fits his theme, I can give the :thumbsup: or :thumbsdown: on just that small piece of content. But that's me.
Yeah, I'm doing that, too. I just forgot to mention it.
Quote:
Is the 1500 XP bribe in addition to what they have at 3rd level? (No book so I can't look that up.) If so, can they turn around and spend that 1500 on item crafting before the game starts, so they have more equipment but less XP?
They can if they so choose.
Quote:
No multiclass penalty is a good rule. You could look to import Pathfinder's solution and give a bonus for taking a favored class. PF gives +1 hp or +1 skill point at each level you take your favored class. You make the decision each time you level up. You'd have to change the rule to give 4 skill points at level one, to keep pace with 3.5's skill system. Just an idea for you.
That's a possibility, but... eh. I don't know that I like it. I do like PF's skill system, though, so I'm going to use the "+3" generic bonus for class skills rather than "x4 at first level". And I'm going to allow those +3s to count as ranks for the purposes of qualifying for feats & PrCs.
Quote:
Quote:
Looking to change a published adventure for the first go-around
Encounter 1: six dire rats (EL 2)
Encounter 2: eight kobolds (EL 3)
Encounter 3: 1 werewolf, 1 wererat, four fiendish dire rats

I'm planning to leave encounter 1 unchanged, change encounter 2 to a kobold sorcerer 2 plus skeletons (maybe Karrnathi?), and change the fiendish dire rats in encounter 3 to zombie dire rats. Thoughts and/or advice?
The power of that last encounter is going to depend strongly on the lycanthropes. In particular, what class levels they have. It will also depend, in part, on your tactics for that group compared to your players' tactics. If they're terribad at tactical planning, you're likely to have a really touch encounter there, even if the class levels are on the low side for the weres. So just keep that in mind as you plan (assuming you know their play style).
I don't know it yet, so... Here's hoping! No class levels for the lycanthropes, but I may drop the werewolf to a second wererat.
Cyclone_Joker wrote:
draco1119 wrote:
Books allowed: SRD, PHB2, MM2, Complete... series, ECS, Races of: Destiny, Eberron, Stone, Wild, MIC
No ToB? No ToM? No Incarnum? No ToB Not even Dungeonscape/It's ... Outside? And no ToB?
DERP!!! I can't believe I forgot ToB. YES, ToB is allowed. I don't have ToM, so it's out. Incarnum might be allowed, as well as Cold & Wet (I don't have Hot or Not, sadly).
Quote:
Also, MMII is one of the worst books printed. It's even worse than Complete Divine/Warrior.
I gotta use what I have right now, so... *shrug* Thanks for the warning, though.
Quote:
Quote:
Houserules: NO FULL TIER 1s!,
Okay. Doesn't solve the problems. A well-built sorcerer is going to dominate.
I know. I'm still aiming for Tier 2-4, though.
Quote:
Quote:
1500 XP for a 1-3 page backstory,
This is problematic. It strikes me as needlessly restrictive, especially if you're using a module and the players know the setting. I can make a backstory in half a page if I know the setting, or even less. This is even more problematic if this module is one-shot, because why bother on characters that you'll never use again?
I plan to make it a springboard into an ongoing campaign, so the One-shot issue isn't an issue. I'm more concerned with getting something easily readable; if that can be done well in 100 words or less, great. If it takes 6 pages, plus a page of indices (a la Return of the King), not so much.
Quote:
Quote:
I'm planning to leave encounter 1 unchanged, change encounter 2 to a kobold sorcerer 2 plus skeletons (maybe Karrnathi?), and change the fiendish dire rats in encounter 3 to zombie dire rats. Thoughts and/or advice?
Unless the lycanthropes are casters, given your book selection, I'm having a hard time seeing them matter much. I can't see those being too threatening.
Unless the players forget silver weapons and/or fire. (Dammit! Where's the :mage: smiley?! :face:)
Author:  GobO_Fire [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
Draco wrote:
I don't know it yet, so... Here's hoping! No class levels for the lycanthropes, but I may drop the werewolf to a second wererat.


Assuming a basic humanoid - human, elf, dwarf, etc - they would have to have at least one class level, even if its commoner.
Author:  Cyclone_Joker [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
draco1119 wrote:
That's a possibility, but... eh. I don't know that I like it. I do like PF's skill system, though, so I'm going to use the "+3" generic bonus for class skills rather than "x4 at first level". And I'm going to allow those +3s to count as ranks for the purposes of qualifying for feats & PrCs.
That's problematic, both for a realism problem, but also for cross-class skills and prereqs. It's also wasteful
Quote:
I don't know it yet, so... Here's hoping! No class levels for the lycanthropes, but I may drop the werewolf to a second wererat.
You can't. Acquired template. On a humanoid without RHD, it needs a class level. Do note how all the examples have a warrior level.
Quote:
DERP!!! I can't believe I forgot ToB. YES, ToB is allowed. I don't have ToM, so it's out. Incarnum might be allowed, as well as Cold & Wet (I don't have Hot or Not, sadly).
Okay, Hot and Not are the weakest of the books, IMO. Incarnum, if you can get past the piss-poor formatting to find the information you need, is a very good, balanced book. And you really had me worried there about ToB.
Quote:
I gotta use what I have right now, so... *shrug* Thanks for the warning, though.
Just be careful what you use. Some of the things in there make the Fleshraker look like a well-thought out, CR-appropriate monster and Gate on Titans as reasonable.
Quote:
I know. I'm still aiming for Tier 2-4, though.
Okay, though you might want to move sorcerers up on the list, or at least keep an eye out. It requires a little more work to make work, but a well-built sorcerer is significantly more powerful than a similar druid, ignoring PS shenanigans.
Quote:
I plan to make it a springboard into an ongoing campaign, so the One-shot issue isn't an issue. I'm more concerned with getting something easily readable; if that can be done well in 100 words or less, great. If it takes 6 pages, plus a page of indices (a la Return of the King), not so much.
I retract my criticism there, then.
Quote:
Unless the players forget silver weapons and/or fire.
Or various Stone Dragon maneuvers. Or power attack. Or decent magics. And, seriously, you're telling me your melee characters don't carry around spare weapons of various metals? Next you'll be telling me that their primary weapon isn't made of Deep Crystal. :nonono:
EDIT: Damn, where'd the :-P smiley go?
Quote:
(Dammit! Where's the :mage: smiley?! :face:)
At least we have :face: . I've been wanting that one for ages.
Author:  GobO_GrumpyOldMan [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
I told ya there was a face palm smiley! The other one is :P = :P

Also: third level, dood! At most I expect a mw weapon and a backup of some sort.
Author:  GobO_Fire [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
ah - must be case sensitive. I'll add that to my list to fix.
Author:  Cyclone_Joker [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
GobO_GrumpyOldMan wrote:
I told ya there was a face palm smiley! The other one is :P = :P
It's case sensitive? I didn't think to try that. I just did :p and then the WotC one.
Quote:
Also: third level, dood! At most I expect a mw weapon and a backup of some sort.
I expect +2 strength gloves, personally. Or a haversack loaded with fun toys.

But, seriously, if you're level 10 and don't have a Crystal weapon as your primary, you're suicidal. I was just poking at draco.
Author:  GobO_Fire [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
As is obvious from the above quote, it's fixed now. It doesn't care about case, nor does it care if you do or do not include the hyphen between the colon and p.

And now we can get back to helping Draco...
Author:  draco1119 [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
Cyclone_Joker wrote:
GobO_GrumpyOldMan wrote:
I told ya there was a face palm smiley! The other one is :P = :P
It's case sensitive? I didn't think to try that. I just did :p and then the WotC one.
Quote:
Also: third level, dood! At most I expect a mw weapon and a backup of some sort.
I expect +2 strength gloves, personally. Or a haversack loaded with fun toys.

But, seriously, if you're level 10 and don't have a Crystal weapon as your primary, you're suicidal. I was just poking at draco.
WBL, bro. According to the DMG, a level 3 character should have 2700 gp. Aren't +2 ability items 4000?
Author:  Cyclone_Joker [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
draco1119 wrote:
Cyclone_Joker wrote:
GobO_GrumpyOldMan wrote:
I told ya there was a face palm smiley! The other one is :P = :P
It's case sensitive? I didn't think to try that. I just did :p and then the WotC one.
Quote:
Also: third level, dood! At most I expect a mw weapon and a backup of some sort.
I expect +2 strength gloves, personally. Or a haversack loaded with fun toys.

But, seriously, if you're level 10 and don't have a Crystal weapon as your primary, you're suicidal. I was just poking at draco.
WBL, bro. According to the DMG, a level 3 character should have 2700 gp. Aren't +2 ability items 4000?
:face: ...And I'm illiterate.

My Haversack statement still stands, though.
Author:  GobO_GrumpyOldMan [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
Cyclone_Joker wrote:
My Haversack statement still stands, though.
Wouldn't WBL still preclude that? IIRC, a player is only allowed to spend a maximum of half of their starting gold on any one item. Haversacks are 2000, so still not legal*.

*Personally, I encourage "group items"; something like a Triple H or a Wand of Cure Light Wounds would still be possible if all the players chipped in.
Author:  Cyclone_Joker [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
GobO_GrumpyOldMan wrote:
Cyclone_Joker wrote:
My Haversack statement still stands, though.
Wouldn't WBL still preclude that? IIRC, a player is only allowed to spend a maximum of half of their starting gold on any one item. Haversacks are 2000, so still not legal*.

*Personally, I encourage "group items"; something like a Triple H or a Wand of Cure Light Wounds would still be possible if all the players chipped in.
Page 199 lists that(Well, actually a limit of a quarter) as an option for DMs, not as hard rules, unless I'm forgetting it mentioned somewhere else.

Also, in my defense, I'd been up for almost 24 hour on, like, 3 hours of sleep, so honestly, I'm kinda surprised my post is even understandable.
Author:  draco1119 [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
Cyclone_Joker wrote:
GobO_GrumpyOldMan wrote:
Cyclone_Joker wrote:
My Haversack statement still stands, though.
Wouldn't WBL still preclude that? IIRC, a player is only allowed to spend a maximum of half of their starting gold on any one item. Haversacks are 2000, so still not legal*.

*Personally, I encourage "group items"; something like a Triple H or a Wand of Cure Light Wounds would still be possible if all the players chipped in.
Page 199 lists that(Well, actually a limit of a quarter) as an option for DMs, not as hard rules, unless I'm forgetting it mentioned somewhere else.
Huh. I always thought it was an actual rule, rather than an option. I'll probably keep a limit, but make it half instead of quarter. That actually allows them a suit of +1 armor/shield if they want it.
Quote:
Also, in my defense, I'd been up for almost 24 hour on, like, 3 hours of sleep, so honestly, I'm kinda surprised my post is even understandable.
I didn't notice. Although you were nicer than usual... :shifty:
Author:  Cyclone_Joker [ Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
draco1119 wrote:
Huh. I always thought it was an actual rule, rather than an option. I'll probably keep a limit, but make it half instead of quarter. That actually allows them a suit of +1 armor/shield if they want it.
I know, a quarter is absurd.

But, meh, I'm the type who'd not make a single purchase for several levels if I wanted a certain item.
Quote:
I didn't notice. Although you were nicer than usual... :shifty:
What can I say? Rough might be more fun, but we all need a change of pace sometime... :shifty:
Author:  draco1119 [ Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [DM] New DM - how am I doing so far?
Cyclone_Joker wrote:
draco1119 wrote:
I didn't notice. Although you were nicer than usual... :shifty:
What can I say? Rough might be more fun, but we all need a change of pace sometime... :shifty:
:excite:

So... Life happened. Only one guy showed. Another guy didn't show, or say why he wasn't going to. The third guy moved back to Floriduh after a bout of pneumonia, and the last guy and his gf had to deal with a sick kid. :cry:
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/