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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:54 pm 
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Oh my goodness, it's done! Yeesh. This has been QUITE a while in the works, but I'm very pleased to present Doubt! (Alternatively titled: Jinsen and Kimberley's Most Excellent Adventure 3: Kimberley Has Feelings (Again) And Jinsen Doesn't Understand Them)

Man, it feels good to have finished it, though. I hope I conveyed what I was trying to convey, here... I've read back through this a few times, and it feels just a tiny bit scattered. Well, only one way to find out - time to get some feedback!

Enjoy, and let me know what you all think!

Word Count: 9401


Doubt


Translations

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:03 pm 
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Ruwin has already heard my big reaction to this piece, but I'll repeat it here, because I'm happy to say it again: I think this story is wonderful!

Thanks so much for sharing, Ruwin!

Slightly more detailed thoughts

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Just dropping by to let you know that I will read this, but I have a stack of papers to grade, and likely won't get to it until tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:47 pm 
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Okay, I have gotten to this, and I liked it! As always, Ruwin, your overall quality of writing comes through here, and it was just fun to read if for that reason only. And, as always with your Kimberley/Jinsen stories, I love the martial arts movie cues that are going on here. Great stuff.

I don't have a lot to say about this piece beyond liking it and the overall growth of Kimberley (and let's admit it, Jinsen). I really liked (the) San-Ku-Nin. I'm not a big fan of the language thing (I'm a firm believer that we should let language issues lie in the Multiverse) but other than that, I loved pretty much everything about them. I'm all for exploring the "weird" in the M:EM, and it's something I should do more of myself.

I just want to point out that you now have (at least) two characters that have either literally or mentally tried to/succeeded in killing their fathers. No comment there, just something I noticed. (By the way, has anyone else noticed that Orcish has three 'walkers, and all three of them are females who have been disinherited in some way or another? (From family, form, and foam) Weird, huh?)

Anyway, here's some typos for you!

Typos


Anyway, like I said, I really enjoyed this. Thanks for posting, and, like Orcish, I look forward to the next installment of the adventures of Jinsen and Kimberley!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:31 am 
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(By the way, has anyone else noticed that Orcish has three 'walkers, and all three of them are females who have been disinherited in some way or another? (From family, form, and foam) Weird, huh?)

Weird... or a sign that I'm less creative than I might like to think... :blush:

In all seriousness, I think my imagination just returns to certain patterns, because they're interesting to me. Hopefully, though, I can come at them from different angles, so that the experience is different each time.

Also, spoiler alert!

Secrets

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:06 am 
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Weird... or a sign that I'm less creative than I might like to think... :blush:

In all seriousness, I think my imagination just returns to certain patterns, because they're interesting to me. Hopefully, though, I can come at them from different angles, so that the experience is different each time.


I think you do. I think Beryl, Gale and Tryst are all very different characters, despite one or two superficial similarities. It was just something I noticed.

Also, spoiler alert!

Secrets


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Aha whoops I meant to comment on this with the other two stories last night and then didn't because it was 1:30 AM and I couldn't see straight.

I love these Kimberley/Jinsen stories, and this is no exception. There's some great character work in this piece, set in a really delightful fantasy frame.

For what it's worth, I don't mind the language thing in fact I kind of like the fact that there's effectively some things that as we're reading we don't understand? It makes for an interesting parallel with Kimberley's experience, actually.

A lot of Jinsen's inner monologue at the beginning reminded me of conversations I've had with a friend about Weird Brain Stuff, between my introversion and anxiety, and faer autism (and also introversion and anxiety) and we both appreciated in particular the like detailing of all the little sounds Kimberley makes and Jinsen's response. So uh... good topicality there? :P I really like that section and I think it does a lot for the piece and for his character.

Well done :)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:54 am 
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Haha, ok thanks for reading, everyone! I'm probably going to be putting both this and Every Light Casts A Shadow up for vote next week (along with Verity and Leon, I suppose!) In the meantime, I really should not procrastinate my responses, but I sure do, ahaha. Really, I appreciate that you take the time to read what I've written. It means a lot to me.

@OL:


Raven:


Keeper:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:10 am 
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Typos and other problems


So, first thing first I want to say that while that is a lot of typos, they're all superficial and easily addressed post-inclusion, so they don't really detract from what is a fantastic character piece. Or, characters piece.

First, like everyone else, I absolutely love the picture you paint with both Jinsen's and Kimberley's POVs. It is simply gorgeous what you can do with them. I really got a feel for the both of them and how they approach their problems, which is, in a word, awesome, and it's especially poignant considering my recent talking about needing to concentrate on the hows of a characters rather than the whats.

Second, I want to say that I loved the imagination that went into the San-Ku-Nin. It is wonderfully whimsical and carries such an air of Eastern god to it; it's not like anything we have in the M:EM and it's simply fantastic to read about. In retrospect, I love the little hint you gave us near the beginning about Jinsen "not having the heart to tell Kimberley they had been travelling in circles" -- because it really does kind of add a whole layer to the relationship between them and Jinsen (as someone said but I can't seem to find about them making an autumnal forest simply because Jinsen liked it). On that note, bravo on that personal note of a completely :w: character loving the scenery of a deciduous forest during Autumn.

Now, I also want to just say in conclusion that you are absolutely one of my favorite authors in our little group. I'm not sure how you do it, but you write in such a way as to get me to really connect with the characters you write, to get inside their heads, while not skimping on actual content of the story or slowing the pace to a crawl. I'll side with Raven in saying that Jinsen (more specifically his teachings) do have a heavy feel of Kung Fu Movies -- simply in terms of how he's like a Zen Master Yoda and his Katas are all metaphorical. Whether or not its intentional, it really makes him an interesting character. Thanks for bringing him to us.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:10 pm 
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I kind of forgot to mention my thoughts on the San-Ku-Nin's language bits. Personally, I think it feels less like the language of another plane and more like their personal language, especially considering that the plane is completely the San-Ku-Nin's creation. While I do admit it's a big can of worms to address how language works with Planeswalkers, I still find it a bit of a shame that we don't have more stories which feature fantastical languages which are explained in the story, as you did within this one with "Al Velahn" and "Al Jinah" (I hope I'm remembering those terms correctly; I didn't check beforehand). On the one hand, I can see this story working perfectly well without the made-up words themselves, but I still liked how you used them here.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:41 pm 
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Hey, thanks for reading Luna! I'll, er... Have to fix those typos ASAP. Aha... Man, sorry about that.

Quote:
First, like everyone else, I absolutely love the picture you paint with both Jinsen's and Kimberley's POVs. It is simply gorgeous what you can do with them. I really got a feel for the both of them and how they approach their problems, which is, in a word, awesome, and it's especially poignant considering my recent talking about needing to concentrate on the hows of a characters rather than the whats.


Yeah, they're like hot and cold, those two, which is interesting, because I've been thinking about it, and I originally characterized Kimberley as a character, and the more I write about her, the more I'm convinced this was a good choice. Jinsen's colors shine through in a pretty straightforward manner, and the recent Fate Reforged set just reinforced that. Really, he could be indistinguishable from any Jeskai master. Kimberley, on the other hand, doesn't really act like other Blue characters I've read about/seen.

And a few times I've though to myself, should she be Red? Black, maybe? Green, or something else? And I read Tension, and I re-read doubt, and I re-read the Eightfold Lotus, and I remember that she's not Blue as in logic, progress, and knowledge. She's Blue, as in curiosity, adaptability, and - this is important - deceit. She wants to learn, to read, to know, but she also wants to hide herself from others, she wants to forget the insecurities that plague her instead of facing them, she lies to herself as well as she lies to everyone else, and if that's not the mark of a Blue character than I don't know what is!

Jinsen's having a good influence on her, though I'm not sure if she'll ever really give up lying. She's been doing it for too long.

Quote:
Second, I want to say that I loved the imagination that went into the San-Ku-Nin. It is wonderfully whimsical and carries such an air of Eastern god to it; it's not like anything we have in the M:EM and it's simply fantastic to read about. In retrospect, I love the little hint you gave us near the beginning about Jinsen "not having the heart to tell Kimberley they had been travelling in circles" -- because it really does kind of add a whole layer to the relationship between them and Jinsen (as someone said but I can't seem to find about them making an autumnal forest simply because Jinsen liked it). On that note, bravo on that personal note of a completely :w: character loving the scenery of a deciduous forest during Autumn.


Thanks! I'm a fan of the San-Ku-Nin myself and I have PLANS to use them in future stories because we only really brushed the surface of who they are and what they do. It's going to be SO COOL. Eventually. Initial design for the character originally came about as I was playing FF7 again. There's this boss at the end of the underground tunnels in Cosmo Canyon right before Red XIII finds his dad that I always thought was pretty cool looking. I based them off of that, loosely.

Anyway, yes! Jinsen likes autumnal forests. He also likes snowcapped mountains and stillwater lakes. His knowledge of nature is not encyclopedic, like, say, Aloise's would be, but he appreciates the aesthetics. (Which reminds me that it would be pretty funny to see what kinds of blogs each M:EM character keeps...) As for the San-Ku-Nin creating the forest for him - well, Rukshan is the one who creates (that's their thing - Ishna shapes and Axos learns) and so since they created the forest, knowing Jinsen likes said forests, its sort of an implied thing. Like, the San-Ku-Nin wanted Jinsen to be comfortable. It wasn't really explicitly stated it was just something I thought about, ahaha.

Quote:
Now, I also want to just say in conclusion that you are absolutely one of my favorite authors in our little group. I'm not sure how you do it, but you write in such a way as to get me to really connect with the characters you write, to get inside their heads, while not skimping on actual content of the story or slowing the pace to a crawl. I'll side with Raven in saying that Jinsen (more specifically his teachings) do have a heavy feel of Kung Fu Movies -- simply in terms of how he's like a Zen Master Yoda and his Katas are all metaphorical. Whether or not its intentional, it really makes him an interesting character. Thanks for bringing him to us.


Oh man, a compliment. Uh, uh, THANKS YOU TOO! (****)

Hehe, but seriously, thanks. I've said before I don't have many action pieces because, well, I get caught up in what everyone's thinking and how they're feeling. It's more interesting to me, and really, as long as their in my own head, it's easier to feel empathy for these characters, and really connect with them. And instead of making my head feel cluttered and unwieldy, the more I write and the more I have to think about, the more space I have in my own mind, if that makes sense? Jinsen has been very trying, very stressful, to write about - which is so strange, because he's so placid, calm, and deliberate! But I feel better for writing him this way, and so now that I know how, I feel more calm. Less stressed.

Life is weird.

Quote:
I kind of forgot to mention my thoughts on the San-Ku-Nin's language bits. Personally, I think it feels less like the language of another plane and more like their personal language, especially considering that the plane is completely the San-Ku-Nin's creation. While I do admit it's a big can of worms to address how language works with Planeswalkers, I still find it a bit of a shame that we don't have more stories which feature fantastical languages which are explained in the story, as you did within this one with "Al Velahn" and "Al Jinah" (I hope I'm remembering those terms correctly; I didn't check beforehand). On the one hand, I can see this story working perfectly well without the made-up words themselves, but I still liked how you used them here.


Yeah, it very much is a personal language because there isn't really anyone else who is still alive that speaks it besides the San-Ku-Nin. I'm gonna level with you - I based Jinsen's title off of the elven words for "my love" in Dragon Age: Ma Vhenan. (BECAUSE I'M A LIMP PISSBABY WHO GOES WEAK AT THE KNEES EVERY TIME MERRIL SAYS THAT TO HAWKE UGH.) And the rest of it sort of spiraled out from there. I liked the "V" sound and three syllable cadence, so I just transferred it over and voila. Fake language, kind of.

Like I said, though, I'm not going to expand on the language specifically. There's not much point - and there's so much more interesting things about the San-Ku-Nin anyway!

Thanks again for reading, Luna!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:57 pm 
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I like your interpretation of why Kimberley is blue... that's a good take on blue.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:26 am 
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I like your interpretation of why Kimberley is blue... that's a good take on blue.

Oh, I forgot about that. I have thought of Kimberley as :r: for a long time. That's probably a misconception on my part, but either way Keeper's right in that I love how, just like I mentioned Jinsen loving autumnal forests, that Kimberley is a very emotional blue character, and that doesn't feel in any way wrong.


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