No Goblins Allowed
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NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side
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Author:  chinkeeyong [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

In this Magic General topic, I suggested the possibility of creating a "NGA Constructed" format: our own format of all YMtC sets, a "YMtC Standard," plus a new custom core set. If you haven't read it already, it would be great if you did!

"NGA Masters" is the name I'm using for the proposed core set. One of its goals is to help showcase the parts of the Expanded Multiverse that wouldn't be able to find a home anywhere else: for example, Jakkard is big enough that a set could be built with it as the setting, but Denner Fabellian and the White Blight are unlikely to find a home in the near future. Likewise, NGA Masters is more or less the only place that things like the Song of Dominia could get a shout-out.

I admit that for all this ambition, I'm only a neophyte to the Magic Expanded Multiverse. I've read some of the recent works but have no idea what you might consider significant or worthy of inclusion in such a set. On top of that, I understand that a large portion of the Expanded Multiverse is buried in the old Wizards forums, which makes my job even harder. I was hoping that the old guard here could point me to some of the more significant parts of the Expanded Multiverse to include.

I'm interested in a cycle of five planeswalkers, one for each of the five colors, plus a few more potential inclusions in multicolor. There will also be a Soul cycle to represent a variety of YMtC and Expanded Multiverse planes. I have earmarked "Multiversal Archivist," "Punch Out the Multiverse," "Song of Dominia," "White Blight" and Obstinate Baloth as possible cards. Aloise Hartley and Gruff are unlikely to be part of NGA Masters, as they feature in the community set Starstill.

Would you all be interested in immortalizing some of the Expanded Multiverse in card form? Which planeswalkers, planes and works do you think should be in a No Goblins Allowed core set? Thanks for the input!

Author:  KeeperofManyNames [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

Damn, CKY, you're on the ball with this.

We should compile some of the information we cooked up in... uh... some other thread about which Planeswalkers would make the most sense as monocolor core set 'walkers.

Actually, I just wrote a whole big post on Tumblr with a good introduction to some of the best stories for getting a sense of the overall picture of M:EM but I'm not sure that's quiiiite what you're looking for...

There's probably a number of worlds that wouldn't make a lot of sense as solo sets but that would have a good place here. Off the top of my head, Ikass, The Amphiseum, Ariva, Shandrovol, Siraus, Helkavin... there's a whole bunch that could provide one or two cards, or just the flavor for otherwise generic cards.

Author:  chinkeeyong [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

For the five colored planeswalkers: How about Jinsen for , Denner for , Lourima for , Kahr-ret-Taris for and Daneera for ?

Author:  Tevish Szat [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

Conveinently, all of those have already showed up in our "Planeswalkers: The Core Set-ing" thread. (Jinsen, though, debuted there as :w::u: and Kahr as :b::r::g:). The monocolored entries have been replicated below.

Lourima Viiran
:b::b::b:
Planeswalker - Lourima [M]
[+X]: You Lose X Life.
[0]: Sacrifice a permanent. If you do, add to your mana pool an amount of :b: equal to the sacrificed permanent's converted mana cost and you may activate another Loyalty ability of Lourima Viiran this turn as though this ability had not been activated this turn.
[-X]: Draw X Cards.
[1]

(I feel like her starting loyalty is as much a matter of flavor as of balance. If I could figure out a convenient way to start her at 0 I might.)

Lourima's Spite
:b::b:
Sorcery [R]
Each opponent loses 1 life for each :b: in your mana pool.
"Die."

(It's an Exsanguinate that forgoes returning you life in favor of letting you keep the :x:.)

Lourima's Grasp
:2::b::b:
Sorcery [U]
Choose one - Target player loses 2 life; or target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn
Choose one - You gain 2 life; or target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn

(Mix and match Consume Strength and Syphon Life.)

Lourima's Shade
:1::b::b:
Creature - Shade [C]
Intimidate
:b::b:, pay 1 life: Lourima's Shade gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
0/1

(Balancing this versus Looming Shade was hard. 1 power less and a more difficult to splash cost alone was NOT worth gaining Intimidate, so it got the life cost added to its pump.)


Denner Fabellian, the Delver -
Planeswalker - Denner
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a loyalty counter on ~
[-3]: Name a card. Search your library for a card of that name, reveal it, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
[-8]: You gain an emblem with "You may play cards from your graveyard as though they were in your hand."
{4}

Denner's Recollection -
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you cast a spell, if you cast it from your hand, you may put a spell counter on ~.
, , remove a spell counter from ~: Return target card from your graveyard to hand.

Denner's Search -
Sorcery (U)
Search your library for a creature, artifact or land card. Shuffle your library, then put the card on top of it.

Denner's Muse -
Creature - Human Advisor (C)
When ~ enters the battlefield, choose one - draw a card; or, return a card from your graveyard to the top of your library.
1/1



Daneera the Huntress
Planeswalker – Daneera (M)
[+1]: Add to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast creature spells.
[0]: Daneera deals damage to target creature equal to the number of loyalty counters on ~. That creature deals damage equal to its power to ~.
[-2]: Put a 3/3 green beast creature token onto the battlefield with “When this creature dies, remove a loyalty counter from Daneera the Huntress."
[-6]: Reveal the top ten cards of your library. Choose a creature card from among them and put in onto the battlefield. Then choose up to two more creature cards from among them and put them into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
{4}

Daneera’s Devotion
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you tap a forest for mana, put a charge counter on ~.
Whenever a forest is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put two charge counters on ~.
Remove two charge counters from ~: Add to your mana pool.

Daneera’s Baloth
Creature – Beast (U)
Trample
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may untap it.
4/4

Daneera’s Call
Instant (C)
Put a 3/3 green beast creature token onto the battlefield.

Author:  RuwinReborn [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

As much as I like Jinsen, I believe Aamir would be more appropriate for the position than he would.

I am also a fan of Beryl for , even if she is a R/W walker. The main problem is differentiating her from Chandra mechanically, but that's a hurdle we can jump over later.

Besides that, however, we have relatively few Red planeswalkers that could fit in her - which I believe Is a discussion that already took place somewhere. I did however, see someone post something about a Red gunslinger from Jakkard. I was under the impression it needed some work, though.

Author:  OrcishLibrarian [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

I am also a fan of Beryl for , even if she is a R/W walker. The main problem is differentiating her from Chandra mechanically, but that's a hurdle we can jump over later.


I've been trying hard to keep her away from Chandra's space, but a large part of that has meant playing up the component of her abilities. Which I think makes her interesting, but might limit her appeal as the representative.

But, obviously, I cannot be anything close to impartial. I love Beryl; people other than me ought to make the call on whether she is or isn't fit for purpose.

Author:  storyteller [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

I've only read her description, but she doesn't look like she'd work outside :r::w:
Red doesn't exactly do protection.

Hmm.

Beryl :1::r::r:
Planeswalker - Beryl

+1: Creatures target player controls must attack ~ during his or her next turn.
-3: ~ deals 2 damage to each creature and player.
-8: You get an emblem with "Send the top card of your library to your graveyard: Add :r: to your mana pool".

//3

:?


Other possible abilities:
+X: Until your next turn, whenever ~ is dealt damage, she deals that much damage to target creature or player.
-X: Until end of turn, whenever a creature you control becomes blocked, ~ deals 1 damage to the creature blocking it.
-X: Until end of turn, creatures you control cannot be blocked except by two or more creatures.

Author:  OrcishLibrarian [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

Well, the one time I tried to concept a mono- version of angry Beryl, it came out something like this:

Beryl, Remorseless

Planeswalker - Beryl

Loyalty: 3

-1: Beryl, Remorseless deals 4 damage to all players.
-1: Beryl, Remorseless deals 3 damage to target creature. If that creature dies this turn, then Beryl, Remorseless deals 3 damage to that creature's controller.
-2: You get an emblem that says: "If a player or creature would be dealt damage by a red spell or planeswalker, double that damage."

Author:  storyteller [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

I was trying to stay away from Chandra-abilities as much as possible, but she's pretty much got the entire red pie where adding :r: to your mana pool and destroying artifacts isn't involved.

Author:  OrcishLibrarian [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

Yeah. Probably because the red slice of the pie is so stinking small... *grumble grumble*

Anyway, should people decide they would like to use Beryl, you all should feel free to do your own designs for her. I'm happy to offer suggestions from a flavor perspective, but I'm not God's gift to card design or anything like that, so I would be happy to place her into more capable hands.

Author:  Ragrio [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side


Besides that, however, we have relatively few Red planeswalkers that could fit in her - which I believe Is a discussion that already took place somewhere. I did however, see someone post something about a Red gunslinger from Jakkard. I was under the impression it needed some work, though.


That would be Darius Mistal. I'm currently working on his ascension story, but I could easily hurry it up if you want to use him.

I've got his card concept though
Darius Mistal

Author:  storyteller [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

+1 is broke. That ability is historically a minus ability on 4 cmc PWs, though admittedly they can usually hit your opponent too.
Still, 3 damage per turn at 3 cmc is pretty broke.
-6 is blue.

After reading through Beryl's stories, I'm further convinced that she doesn't make a good representative of :r: PW.
She feels much more :w: than :r:.

Author:  Ragrio [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

Yah +1 is probably too good.

The reasoning behind the not very reddish ultimate is that he is a freedom fighter, so he liberates all your creatures so you can't summon them.

Author:  Moonbeam [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

I'm actually interested in the idea of a mono-red Beryl, but with a focus on the "Small Magic" more than the fire. Something like:

Beryl, Enchantress :1::r::r:
Planeswalker - Beryl
[+1]: Discard a card. If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal an Enchantment card. Put that card into your hand, then shuffle your library.
[-2]: Add :r::r: to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast enchantment spells.
[-5]: For each enchantment you control, Beryl deals 3 damage to target player, and each creature that player controls.
{3}

Author:  OrcishLibrarian [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

Moonbeam wrote:
I'm actually interested in the idea of a mono-red Beryl, but with a focus on the "Small Magic" more than the fire. Something like:

Beryl, Enchantress :1::r::r:
Planeswalker - Beryl
[+1]: Discard a card. If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal an Enchantment card. Put that card into your hand, then shuffle your library.
[-2]: Add :r::r: to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast enchantment spells.
[-5]: For each enchantment you control, Beryl deals 3 damage to target player, and each creature that player controls.
{3}

That would certainly be different. I would be tickled to see her as the first red enchantress, as it were. I worry that it might push the color pie a little too far, but I'll leave that call up to better minds than mine.

Author:  storyteller [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

I don't think red and enchantment love go together all that well.

Author:  Moonbeam [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

I don't think it causes too many issues. Red really needs some way to interact with enchantments, in my opinion. I'm actually surprised we didn't get that many of these in Theros. The Mirrodin sets had plenty of ways to interact with artifacts for all the colors, and Innistrad did the same thing with the Graveyard. We did get Forgeborn Oreads, though, so red Enchantment love doesn't break the pie TOO much...

However, the core-set would need a slightly higher volume of red enchantments to make this worth playing.

Author:  storyteller [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

Just put "red" and "enchantments" into a gatherer search and you'd clearly see how little red interacts with enchantments.
You can't make arguments that such-and-such doesn't break a pie because a single card exists.
I could just as easily point to Aura Barbs and say red hates on enchantments.

Author:  RuwinReborn [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

Moving away from 'walkers for a moment - since 'walkers already get to shine in our stories - how about a cycle of legendary creatures based on non-walkers?

I'm thinking a cycle of mono-colored creatures all with an ability that activates off of mana from an ally color - similar to the uncommon cycles in m14 and m15.

I bring this up because we already have a card designed for a certain Miss Jackie that fits this criteria. My suggestions for legendary creatures based on M:EM non-walkers are as follows:

Astria Trevanei - Blue, with a White active.
Jackie DeCoeur - Red, with a Black active.
Kyara Vale - Black with a Blue active.
Motta - Green with a Red active.
??? - White with a Green active.

Normally I'd provide links to the appropriate works but I'm on my phone, and so cannot. Let me know what you think of this idea, though. Still need to fill that last spot. O_o

Author:  Moonbeam [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NGA Constructed Format: Concept Discussion, M:EM Side

Just put "red" and "enchantments" into a gatherer search and you'd clearly see how little red interacts with enchantments.
You can't make arguments that such-and-such doesn't break a pie because a single card exists.
I could just as easily point to Aura Barbs and say red hates on enchantments.


I would argue that red can interact with enchantments, both in terms of love and hate, as long as it does so in a red way, just as both Forgeborn Orieds and Mana Barbs do. While it might stretch the color pie a bit, it certainly doesn't break it.

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