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 Post subject: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:29 pm 
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There seems to be a theme of individual responsibility here.

Planar History
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The Conflagration - Tribes and Roles

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Further Information - The Present Framework

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The Forgotten Tribes
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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:25 am 
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There's some interesting sparks of ideas here, but I can't say I really understand what's going on with this setting. Could you explain it in layman's terms?

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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:03 am 
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Yes, here's a simpler explanation that provides a chronological arrangement of the information from the first post. It lays out the basics of each race's role on the plane and should allow the reader to extrapolate the plane's theme.

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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:01 pm 
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Sorry, I still can't quite wrap my head around the landscape of Xu here. I'm not asking for the history of the plane or a rundown of the inhabitants. What it would be really helpful to have is an elevator pitch, like a blurb on a tourism brochure. What's the deal with this plane, in just two or three sentences?

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The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
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Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Good question. I had conceived it as a plane with a backstory themed around individual responsibility. Let's see. Maybe something like:

Xu is a world where the individual's convictions and ideals are made manifest by the plane's supernatural denizens. Xu, a plane of paradoxes where the primal past is the predominant force of development while self-styled sophisticates, academics, and spiritual leaders drag the plane into a barren state of barbarism.

The first part: This is intended to tie into the bits of history where intentions--such as those of Elzid or the beggar-priests of the Undying Gods--manifested in the form of primitive, barbaric rituals, stripping of the free will, and a testing of convictions in the case of Elzid's movement being responsible for the destruction of the Genesai race. In particular, the Toraiji are brought back into existence by a sense of being slighted, of injustices committed by the Undying Gods. Likewise the Undying Gods (or at least their teachings) are believed to be a response to the beggars', cripples', and generally broken folks' feelings of being abused by the more powerful denizens of Xu.

The second part: This touches on how the first race--the atogs--drove themselves into extinction, yet are the poised to become the saviors of the plane by taking the wrecks of the war and turning it all into a foundation for the future development of Xu. The paradox is that the simple, cruel, seemingly savage past (the atogs) will be the key to Xu's recovery from the war between the Undying Gods and the Toraiji.

The pitch probably needs to be more streamlined, but that's the basic idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:57 pm 
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Very interesting themes. It's one of the more "out there" planes, certainly. I think it has potential for good stories, but I'd have to see what you do with it to pass judgment.

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The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:21 am 
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Interesting how this follows sino-japanese naming conventions. Should I expect some eastern asian influences?

Overall rather creative and commendable, if probably in need of an elevator pitch.

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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:15 pm 
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Let me get back to you on possible east Asian influences. I was thinking of Sobek with the Krokahri. You can find my elevator pitch in my post prior to this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:01 pm 
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Helio, at the time I had just finished a DBZ marathon so that may account for the use of -rai in naming the Toraiji. Torj sounded too close to "tory", so I aided the -rai kinda in the middle. So any sort of specific cultural influence, aside from what I mention for the Krokahri, is incidental.

I've updated the original post with a "further information" segment that provides a planewide synopsis of..well, the major events happening across the plane in present day. It is a framework from which I'll be composing the plane's stories.

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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:26 pm 
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There's... A lot going on here.
Honestly, I feel like the choice of names obscures too much of the basic nature of creatures here. It would help if you called some of them by their basic race rather than their cultural name. Mind, I'm not saying to get rid of the names, but without giving us a solid understanding of what they are first, it muddies things a lot.

I can also not stress enough, do NOT use the orochi as a proper name. That already belonged to a specific culture and unless you're going to use that specific model/culture, you're going to get a lot of confusion. Either just call them snakefolk, naga, or come up with a new culture name for them.

As to the themes and history, I'll have to come back to that. I've already been using my phone just for these cursory notes, so...

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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:01 pm 
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So... I went over this, and I really do think that it would be easier to parse if you went back and referred to the creatures by their type more often. As it is, there's just a lot of vocabulary for the cultures that we have to double back on to make sure we get it straight.

Aside from that, there are some bits and pieces that I don't think really benefit the overall narrative of the place. It's not that the objectives of those pieces aren't fine, but rather the details surrounding them are... not really all that beneficial. Take the dragons, for example. Them going into hiding fits, but shapeshifting into gorillas to do that is... bizarre. It just sort of breaks up the narrative in really strange ways and all those extra details like that end up kind of making it harder to put everything together. In general, referring to things as being reptilian/mammalian or hybrids of those don't help either. It's best to let your audience fill in some pieces on their own with expectations, but you're fighting a LOT of the expectations of the things you have here by trying to explain what you mean.

So, my advice would probably be to take a look at the overall shape of the plane and see what details actually flow into the theme and shape you're striving for and which ones are going to cause some clashes with the reader's understanding of how things work. (the dragons ability to shapeshift for example. That's a DnD thing, mostly as an excuse to have half dragons, but that's NOT how Magic's dragons work, so it causes a speedbump when a reader is checking things out. It's just that there are a fair number of such things.) In general, the hybrids thing doesn't really feel like it's helping you accomplish that.

There's some good dark jungle/primeval vibes going on here, but you kind of fight that with all these pseudo scientific aspects in the plane. Trying to explain how things work is getting in the way of developing your mystique and in general, letting the reader participate in the world's creation in their own headspace.

But that's just my opinion, take of it what you will.

(Though seriously, find another name for the Orochi)

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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:22 pm 
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Noted, noted and noted! During my downtime I was thinking about the primeval, dark jungly themes: primevalpunk.

Jund has a bunch of giant insects running around. Xu could have something like that, except they produce some kinda bioluminscence chemicals that can be used to power transportation artifacts made from the tough bones and hides of things like wurms and other big beasts. Basically, using the remains of primeval (in the general sense, not the sense of Dominaria's Primevals) creatures as armor, or weapons of war akin to the ornithopters and stuff Urza was working with in the Weatherlight story arc.

The plane, on the whole, is a very savage place. This is what keeps the primeval punk sort of artifice from progressing into something like you'd find in the halls of the Tolarian Academy, or on pre-retcons Mirrodin. The wildlife and tribes constantly adapt to match human ingenuity (since this is fantasy, smoke and mirrors and all). It also ensures a kind of "evenness" to the development of artifice across the plane.

These are the places my mind goes when I give it a rest from learning to read EKGs.

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 Post subject: Re: Plane - Xu
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:19 am 
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Noted, noted and noted! During my downtime I was thinking about the primeval, dark jungly themes: primevalpunk.

You're going to have to forgive this rant, as it's not really about Xu, but about the term "punk" in this context. Because people are misusing that a lot these days. Punk doesn't actually refer to an aesthetic, it refers to a setting archetype in dealing with social morals and protagonist/antagonist relationships. The term really refers, broadly, to a specific type of fiction that was sort of the spawn of pulp heroes during the 20's and the sort of gray morality that revolved around them. Often times the villains of such pieces were either sympathetic victims caught up in a systematic evil or... well, puppy kicking, mustache twirling jerkasses. But the heroes often times were themselves, less than noble, either self-serving or downright flawed beings caught up in plots that otherwise they wouldn't have cared about, perfectly at home in the system that doesn't prey upon them specifically.

This saw a resurgence when cyberpunk became a thing during the 1980's and took a lot of those notes from the earlier paradigms to set up their dystopia. The punk suffix didn't really spread past that until steam punk broke into existence, followed shortly after by several other imitators such as diesel punk and atomic punk, but all throughout that the key note to it didn't actually have much to do with the level of tech involved, but that was rather a fantastic excuse to move things forward into a model similar to the two-fisted tales of the 20's or later.

As a consequence, a lot of people don't really get that the term belongs to more than a broad aesthetic, but rather a social model as much, if not more.

So... yeah, sorry, pet peeve of mine. It is relevant though because in your world, I don't think it's natural to try to go the punk model. That isn't to say that the technology is the issue, but rather that I don't see the social dynamics as able to really support it since things are pretty wildly different from a society that can support such a thing. This feels much more like a Swords and Sorcery setting that might have some smatterings of ancient/advanced tech. Something more akin to Edgar Rice Burroughs or Robert E. Howard. (IE Conan or Tarzan)

Quote:
Jund has a bunch of giant insects running around. Xu could have something like that, except they produce some kinda bioluminscence chemicals that can be used to power transportation artifacts made from the tough bones and hides of things like wurms and other big beasts. Basically, using the remains of primeval (in the general sense, not the sense of Dominaria's Primevals) creatures as armor, or weapons of war akin to the ornithopters and stuff Urza was working with in the Weatherlight story arc.
I think, if you're talking aerial things, then some sort of alchemy based bug juice as a fuel substitute is cool enough to try to work with. However, I think it's kind of important that you keep that as a sort of leading edge to the technology rather than have that be the common thing. In my opinion, while for aircraft it's fine, it'd be much more fitting to have land based vehicles resemble the Gruul War Plow and possibly be pulled by something like an enlisted wurm. That way you'd really be able to delineate between the alchemically driven aspects of the society and the more basic models. It would also help to sort of get away from the gears and cogs aesthetic present with a lot of Urza's work.

Jund is a good model to sort of draw inspiration from, with maybe a hint of Zendikar with the ruins and inexplicable artifacts.

Quote:
The plane, on the whole, is a very savage place. This is what keeps the primeval punk sort of artifice from progressing into something like you'd find in the halls of the Tolarian Academy, or on pre-retcons Mirrodin. The wildlife and tribes constantly adapt to match human ingenuity (since this is fantasy, smoke and mirrors and all). It also ensures a kind of "evenness" to the development of artifice across the plane.
In general, that's your strongest note to play with in this setting, though, if it were me, I'd sort of redefine how the perception of technology is here and really play towards the mystique of recovered ancient knowledge with perhaps a small helping of not knowing how to reproduce it properly to keep things from getting advanced.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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