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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:12 pm 
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Greetings from the shadows of Antiquity! While perusing through a stack of ancient, ancient, ANCIENT history, I have uncovered a leathery, withered tome that tells the story of that mythical and terrible organization we know of as the Dominia Cabal.

I have painstakingly translated the original tome and brought it to all of you!

(Basically, old-walker stories are fun, and we don't have a ton of them, so...)

Enjoy!

:D

Tales of the Dominia Cabal: Lucien


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:46 pm 
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Aaahaha wow. This is great. I love that we're getting sort of a glimpse of the first stages of things really falling apart for the group. I'm surprised everyone made it out alive--you don't kill your characters hardly ever, Raven, which I find interesting. Maybe because if they're dead they can't suffer? :P

I dug the planeswalker battles in this though I think I lost my place a couple times. Seemed like a very reasonable depiction of what it'd be like for a handful of 'walkers intruding on the lair of someone who had quite a few turns to build up a mana base.

The list of various Cabal members and spellsquires at the beginning was great too. Just seeing all the names listed off like that... ah, something about it gave me chills. What a cool part of our history.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:40 pm 
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Thanks, Keeper! Really glad you like it. I started this with the idea of having oldwalkers doing their thing, but as I was thinking through the plot, I really liked the idea of Lucien sort of serving as a catalyst for the breaches to come in the Cabal.

As for the Cabal in general, and all those gathered (and not gathered) there, all I can say is that I really like the Dominia Cabal. I'm really glad Tevish thought of it, and I'm equally glad we as a community were able to put it together. I hope we see more Tales of the Dominia Cabal in the future. I believe this story is the fourth we have so far of the Cabal, and I basically love them all (even though they all focus on sort pretty horrible things). So yeah, I'm excited to see what else we can piece together of their history.

As for not killing my characters...well, you know. Give me time...

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go work on my next Denner story...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:52 pm 
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Really liked Lucien. Was there more information on the lovecraftian sunshine diamond before?

I must say that I was initially confused when I read this, but the world of the Cabal is fascinating, if probably dark because even for Magic's standards everyone's outright evil. The characterisation is colourful as ever, however, so it's by no means one-dimmensional.

I think I liked the Mender's and the Huntsman's exchange the most. Just a neat little moment.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:37 pm 
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I really like exploring more of the Cabal's era, especially something that's not directly related to the Fall. I also feel, with the fate of Pythdon, this could be a potential inclusion in Minutes to Midnight, heading up the Cabal's "arc" therein.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:29 am 
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Really liked Lucien. Was there more information on the lovecraftian sunshine diamond before?

Thanks for reading, and glad you liked Lucien! This is the first appearance, and the first mention of him. I hinted at a back story to help elevate the importance of the events (important for the finale) and to save time, since I figured this story was going to go over 7000 words anyway.

I must say that I was initially confused when I read this, but the world of the Cabal is fascinating, if probably dark because even for Magic's standards everyone's outright evil. The characterisation is colourful as ever, however, so it's by no means one-dimmensional.

I don't know if I would say everyone in the Cabal is "evil," per se, but they certainly have some skewed morality. Urza says in Planeswalker that "Without a plane to bind them, 'walkers forget what they were. They become predators, unless they go mad." (Abbey, p. 274). As that part of that novel has been keeping in my mind for some reason lately, it was a concept I wanted to explore a bit.

I think I liked the Mender's and the Huntsman's exchange the most. Just a neat little moment.

Thanks. I knew from the outset that I wanted to focus on just a few of the 'walkers, because otherwise it would get really out of hand. But I wanted to give the others at least some screen time and characterization, just because most of them have not been seen "on screen" yet. Before this piece, we've seen the Scientist (Ellia), the Historian, Ilyria, and the Sweeper in Cabal-era stories, and Kala the Iron Doctor much later. I wanted to spend at least a little time giving some other key figures, like the Huntsman and the Mender, a little bit of character work. There are also some foreshadowing moments in here with the Master, the Chamberlain, and the Huntsman I really like, when you know what to look for.

I really like exploring more of the Cabal's era, especially something that's not directly related to the Fall. I also feel, with the fate of Pythdon, this could be a potential inclusion in Minutes to Midnight, heading up the Cabal's "arc" therein.

Thanks for reading!

I thought of the Minutes to Midnight connection shortly after I posted the piece. I was re-reading my "Darkness" poem in that thread, and saw in the slated story slots "Something from the Dominia Cabal," and suddenly realized that this story fits that theme surprisingly well, considering it wasn't intentional.

I was really happy that I hit on the connection with Pythdon, which is technically a part of the Archive (it was mentioned two or three times in War of the Wheel and once again in "Pick Your Poison") but it's only ever been specified as an underground forest. I like that I was able to give it more of a history, even if that history is...dark.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:45 am 
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Thanks for reading, and glad you liked Lucien! This is the first appearance, and the first mention of him. I hinted at a back story to help elevate the importance of the events (important for the finale) and to save time, since I figured this story was going to go over 7000 words anyway.


Good, I was afraid I missed anything.

A very solid introduction to a creepy character.

Quote:
I don't know if I would say everyone in the Cabal is "evil," per se, but they certainly have some skewed morality. Urza says in Planeswalker that "Without a plane to bind them, 'walkers forget what they were. They become predators, unless they go mad." (Abbey, p. 274). As that part of that novel has been keeping in my mind for some reason lately, it was a concept I wanted to explore a bit.


I do see several individual members as being likeable, I just think the Cabal as a whole is an evil organization (and about to get worse). Still, the individual members do have very divergent motivations and personalities, so it's not an unified bad system.

Obviously Lucien doesn't come off as having the moral high ground here, even if he does throw one hell of a party.

Quote:
Thanks. I knew from the outset that I wanted to focus on just a few of the 'walkers, because otherwise it would get really out of hand. But I wanted to give the others at least some screen time and characterization, just because most of them have not been seen "on screen" yet. Before this piece, we've seen the Scientist (Ellia), the Historian, Ilyria, and the Sweeper in Cabal-era stories, and Kala the Iron Doctor much later. I wanted to spend at least a little time giving some other key figures, like the Huntsman and the Mender, a little bit of character work. There are also some foreshadowing moments in here with the Master, the Chamberlain, and the Huntsman I really like, when you know what to look for.


A noble effort indeed. I think that scene especially worked because it makes their entire motivations and basic personalities evident in just a couple of sentences.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:41 am 
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I was actually wondering if Pythdon was a plane that existed elsewhere in the archives. That's really cool!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:44 pm 
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Yeah, admittedly, it's not a well established plane. There are, I think, only three mentions of it, and two of them are redundant. Here are two of them:

The War of the Wheel wrote:
She thought about this for a moment, trying to think of a possible solution to this problem. Suddenly, her mind tripped on a rarely used creature in her mental catalog, a gigantic, living, and moving fungus she had picked up in the bizarre underground forests of Pythdon. She had stumbled on the Ariasilid quite by accident while tracking a large Creeper Bat for food, and she was shocked to discover the Ariasilid could move. It had appeared at first to be nothing more than a massive mushroom, as large as a grown baloth and then some. It had taken her a great deal of time and patience, but eventually she formed an understanding with it, and then even a sort of friendship. When she felt its acceptance, she bonded with it as she would any of the beasts in her repertoire. Sadly, the strange giant made a poor combat ally due to its exceedingly slow speed, but the creature’s top was profoundly soft. If anything could cushion a fall like that, it was the Ariasilid.


Pick Your Poison wrote:
Cyrryc moved away briefly into the shadows, and came back a few moments later, holding something long and sharp in his hands. “This is the fang of the so-called vampire cobra of the plane of Pythdon. No true vampirism, of course, but the creature does suck its victim’s blood as it injects its venom. Such a weak venom, too!” He held up the fang to show Denner. It was thin, but longer than Denner’s index finger. “I suppose it doesn’t need strong venom, though. It’s nearly large enough to fill this room.”


So, as you can see, very, very short references. The third (second, technically) is from later in WotW, where Daneera thinks the word Pythdon while summoning her Ariasilid (which is still one of the coolest creatures I've made up...)


To Tevish: As the primary progenitor of the characters of the Dominia Cabal, was there anything in here with them that you felt didn't portray them in a way you/we would want?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Hm, so yeah, we've got some pretty interesting fragments to go on here... That's pretty cool.

I love how your planes sort of grow up out of fragments like this.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:24 pm 
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For the record, Raven, I am going to read the heck out of this story this weekend :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:41 pm 
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For the record, Raven, I am going to read the heck out of this story this weekend :)

That sounds great. But, if it's not too much trouble, would you mind putting the heck back into it when you're done? It's just useful to the story, you see...

:D


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:02 pm 
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For the record, Raven, I am going to read the heck out of this story this weekend :)

That sounds great. But, if it's not too much trouble, would you mind putting the heck back into it when you're done? It's just useful to the story, you see...

:D

I'll bring it back with a full tank of gas. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:22 pm 
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Wow, Raven. Wow. This is a really good one. I'm super glad that you posted it, and I'm super glad that I got to read it. Thanks so much for sharing!

So, I'll be upfront about my prejudices: I tend not to like oldwalker stories. A lot of the time, they seem to fall into two-giants-battling-atop-an-anthill territory, and, at the end of the day, my problem is that, most of the time, I'm more interested in the ants than the giants. I can find the little-kids-with-Erector-sets mentality that a lot of oldwalker seem to have very tiresome. I find it hard to empathize with their ends-justify-the-means versions of their own personal utopias, and I find it even harder to empathize with their desire to kick over the sand castles of anyone else whom they don't like.

And, to some extent, this story follows that arc.

But I don't mind it, here. Because I think you've done a wonderful, wonderful job.

Conath is a sympathetic enough narrator that I'm happy to follow along with him, and the growing fissure that you hint at between him and Dathra is chillingly done. You can sense that those two are going to drift to different ends of the great power versus great responsibility spectrum, and we get a first glimpse of that here.

I think you did wonderful work with the rest of the Cabal as well. The manner in which they present themselves -- as titles, not as people -- sort of underscores the unnaturalness of what they have become, and I find myself instinctively more sympathetic to those among the group who deign to call each other by names rather than positions. With that being said, I also thing that you managed to sketch an awful lot of characters into the various Cabal members -- even the ones who only speak a line or two, or aren't even present. The fact that you managed to get so much nuance into a talking beam of light is a feat in and of itself. It's really, really well done.

And I like the scenes on Pythdon, too, with the creepy, lotus-eaters vibe of the populace, to Lucien and his interesting powers. I like the varied reactions of the Cabal quintet to the state of the populace -- you can tell who's concerned about the well-being of the people, and who just doesn't like having someone else play with their toys.

And, in the end, the giants crush the anthill, because that's what giants do, and the ants get crushed, because that's what happens to ants. My sympathies are still with the ants, but you got me interested in the giants, too, which is no mean feat.

I wanted to call attention to one line in particular, because it's a great line, but I also think the structure is a little off?

"Good," the Master continued. "The past is the past, and even we cannot alter it," the Historian twitched slightly at this comment, but no one said anything.

Seems like the aside about the Historian ought to be it's own sentence?

Anyway, really cool stuff here. Thanks again for posting!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:25 pm 
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@Orcish: Thanks for reading! I'm always happy to hear your thoughts on my work.

Wow, Raven. Wow. This is a really good one. I'm super glad that you posted it, and I'm super glad that I got to read it. Thanks so much for sharing!

You're welcome! And thank you for the praise. I'm glad you liked the story.

So, I'll be upfront about my prejudices: I tend not to like oldwalker stories. A lot of the time, they seem to fall into two-giants-battling-atop-an-anthill territory, and, at the end of the day, my problem is that, most of the time, I'm more interested in the ants than the giants. I can find the little-kids-with-Erector-sets mentality that a lot of oldwalker seem to have very tiresome. I find it hard to empathize with their ends-justify-the-means versions of their own personal utopias, and I find it even harder to empathize with their desire to kick over the sand castles of anyone else whom they don't like.

And you know what else? They're difficult to write! Oldwalkers are not easy to write for, for a whole lot of reasons. Looking back, I think that's one failing of my "The Cruel Finale." I mean, I love that story, and I'm really proud of it, but a lot of those oldwalkers don't feel much like Oldwalkers to me. Still, I think it's one of my best stories, but it illustrates my point. Oldwalkers are not easy to write well.

And, to some extent, this story follows that arc.

But I don't mind it, here. Because I think you've done a wonderful, wonderful job.

Well, that's uplifting to hear.

:D

Conath is a sympathetic enough narrator that I'm happy to follow along with him, and the growing fissure that you hint at between him and Dathra is chillingly done. You can sense that those two are going to drift to different ends of the great power versus great responsibility spectrum, and we get a first glimpse of that here.

Choosing which of the Cabal to bring along on this little adventure was not an easy task. I wanted Conath and Dathra, partly for the reason you hit on there, and, well, partly because they're mine. Tevish designed and created the majority of the Cabal, and a few of us pitched in on the rest (like you making Thineaus, for instance), and the LocTierans were one of my contributions, so, being the selfish asterisks that I am, I wanted to use them. I needed someone like the General (whose gender is a mystery in our Archive dossier. Did anyone notice I never gendered the General?), and I settles on the Falling Sun and Linara of the Skyloom because I knew Lucien would be airborne. I considered others, and considered dropping some, but ultimately, the team felt right. The stuff with Conath and Dathra came naturally as I was writing, and I was quite happy with it.

I think you did wonderful work with the rest of the Cabal as well. The manner in which they present themselves -- as titles, not as people -- sort of underscores the unnaturalness of what they have become, and I find myself instinctively more sympathetic to those among the group who deign to call each other by names rather than positions. With that being said, I also thing that you managed to sketch an awful lot of characters into the various Cabal members -- even the ones who only speak a line or two, or aren't even present. The fact that you managed to get so much nuance into a talking beam of light is a feat in and of itself. It's really, really well done.

Thank you! But again, a large portion of the accolades there goes to Tevish, who designed most of these characters. I merely tried to bring them to life in a way that supported Tevish's write-up of them. I hope my meager contribution has done them justice, and not taken too much of their mystery away.

And I like the scenes on Pythdon, too, with the creepy, lotus-eaters vibe of the populace, to Lucien and his interesting powers. I like the varied reactions of the Cabal quintet to the state of the populace -- you can tell who's concerned about the well-being of the people, and who just doesn't like having someone else play with their toys.

I love how Lucien even calls the General out on this point. "Why do you even care? When's the last time YOU were even here?" To which the General responds "Shut up! It's mine!" But yeah, Pythdon was kind of fun to write.

And, in the end, the giants crush the anthill, because that's what giants do, and the ants get crushed, because that's what happens to ants. My sympathies are still with the ants, but you got me interested in the giants, too, which is no mean feat.

At least we know that part of Pythdon lives on. But I'm glad you were able to engage with the giants, as well!

I wanted to call attention to one line in particular, because it's a great line, but I also think the structure is a little off?

"Good," the Master continued. "The past is the past, and even we cannot alter it," the Historian twitched slightly at this comment, but no one said anything.

Seems like the aside about the Historian ought to be it's own sentence?

Good catch. This way reads like another speech tag. I'll swap the comma for a period, and maybe even drop the Historian thing to it's own line. Thanks!

Anyway, really cool stuff here. Thanks again for posting!

Glad to, glad to.

And maybe someday, I'll reveal the dark mystery behind this story.

Some day.

:plot:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:27 am 
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I think one of the things that does make this work is the way you have a very wide range of power levels here for the different oldwalkers, which is of course accurate to what we know of the really uh... baffling range of possible conflicts between them, from Bolas's lengthy bout with the Leviathan, to Manatarqua taking a fireball to the uh roof, or Dyfed being stabbed in the brain by a mortal, albeit a very nasty mortal. I think this feels, to some extent, like a story of older times, because some of these characters feel like older, prerevisionist characters--characters from before Planeswalkers underwent their memetic power creep.

After all, Freyalise and Urza may have broken Dominaria once each respectively, but most of the other 'walkers in, say, the Summit of the Null Moon or the Nine Titans couldn't have pulled such a thing off.

I will say though that I don't think The Cruel Finale felt like it wasn't about oldwalkers to me? but uh... yeah, god, it's really late and I didn't really sleep last night but I guess what I'm saying is that I think the wide range of characters on display here really sells the fact that not every character is an Upper Bounder but this is an age when there ARE Upper Bounders, and the Cabal has a LOT of them together in one place. It simultaneously has the extreme events of pre-mending grounded in the card slinging wizard duels of pre-revision and that's what makes it work I think.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:42 am 
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I will say though that I don't think The Cruel Finale felt like it wasn't about oldwalkers to me? but uh... yeah, god, it's really late and I didn't really sleep last night but I guess what I'm saying is that I think the wide range of characters on display here really sells the fact that not every character is an Upper Bounder but this is an age when there ARE Upper Bounders, and the Cabal has a LOT of them together in one place. It simultaneously has the extreme events of pre-mending grounded in the card slinging wizard duels of pre-revision and that's what makes it work I think.

Fair enough. And while I chose not to delve too far into it, it should be noted that the Cabal has ranked members and servitors. The ranked members, like the Master, the Chamberlain, the Mender, the Historian, the General and others, are probably more powerful than the others, like Conath and Dathra. For instance, the Builder can create entire artificial planes, whereas I suspect that sort of thing is beyond Conath or Dathra.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:05 am 
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I think that sense definitely came through here and was a big part of what made the piece so interesting from that oldwalker perspective. Like I said, it had that prerevision feel.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:12 pm 
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I think that sense definitely came through here and was a big part of what made the piece so interesting from that oldwalker perspective. Like I said, it had that prerevision feel.

And, of course, the deep, dark secret...

:plot:

:D


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:46 pm 
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Someday I'll get my revenge. Somehow.


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