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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:22 pm 
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Also, I just need to brain dump this now before I forget about it:


The Device
Legendary Artifact


, , sacrifice The Device: Shuffle all creatures into their owner's libraries.

“How big is this thing going to go when it goes?”
“Be at least a half-mile away when it goes off."
“So, big, then?”



The Machine
Legendary Artifact


: Put a charge counter on target artifact.

You control all artifacts with charge counters on them.

If The Machine leaves play, sacrifice all artifacts with charge counters on them.

"Magnet on!"

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:06 am 
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I don't like the proposed gamble mechanic because it's either ludicrously broken or something you regret doing. It's like taking storm and expanding it to an entire block mechanic.

Here's a crack at the wager mechanic, inspired by David Sirlin's Chess 2 stones mechanic:

Bullets

- At the beginning of your upkeep, you gain a bullet. You are encouraged to use poker chips to represent bullets.

- Any time you could cast a sorcery, you can give bullets to or take bullets from a consenting player.

- Whenever a creature you control blocks or becomes blocked by one or more creatures, if you have any bullets, you may initiate a showdown. You can showdown any number of times in one combat, one after the other.

- To showdown, you secretly wager one or more bullets, then the controller of those creatures wagers any number of bullets. Then you reveal the number of bullets you wagered.

- If you wagered more bullets, that player sacrifices all creatures blocking or blocked by your creature. Otherwise, you sacrifice your creature.

Then you can have cards that interact with bullets and so on. This version of the bullet mechanic encourages a focus on creature combat, but makes it more about bluffing than the power/toughness, which plays into the gambling and "guns equalize everything" theme. It also means that creatures will die a lot, which helps to break board stalls.

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YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:37 pm 
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I love this idea. The gamble mechanic seems a little gimmicky, but so did conspiracies and look how well they turned out. The one problem I see is that I don't want this set limited to Commander. I originally thought that Conspiracy was for Standard, and I got so excited about the reprint of Brainstorm for my instant/sorcery deck...yeah.

Also, about the luck thing? I say we roll with it. Make as many luck cards as we want.

Then add luck manipulation and luck hate. Examples:
Doublethink
Instant
If a card has a luck mechanic, you may choose the outcome. (A card with a luck mechanic involves rolling a die, flipping a coin, or any other method of producing random results to choose an outcome. You still have to flip the coin, even though it has no effect.)
If he knows I know that he knows, then I know that he knows...

Cheat's Punishment
Enchantment
On each player's end step, if that player has won 2 coin flips in a row, Cheat's Punishment deals 5 damage to that player.
Hang on a sec-he's dealing from the bottom of the deck!

Also, CKY? I love the new bullet mechanic. However, I do like the gamble idea as a concept. Not as a command zone thing, though...maybe it's an enchantment with a 0 cost and has our new wager keyword? Or maybe it could be like Planechase with the separate plane deck.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Okay, so, I have a confession to make.

I have been entertaining a horrid little idea for some time now. Horrid in that it has been tremendously fun to think about, and yet I honestly have no clue whether it is a good idea or a bad idea.

The answer to that essentially depends on whether or not people around these parts would like it.

This actually seems like a nice chance to float that little thought balloon. I'd be very interested to get people's gut reactions - to the card itself, obviously, but also the bit of revealed information it implies.

Spoiler

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:21 pm 
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Spoiler


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:37 pm 
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I really like the idea of gambles. They look fun.

OL:
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Last edited by Moonbeam on Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Spoiler


Spoiler

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Ok, so sorry I've been away! Busy weekend painting miniatures and all that. Sort of lost track of time. T_T

@OL:


@CKY: Bullets seems a bit... hmm... complex. I like the idea of making this a "gambling matters" set, and I really think we should run with that, but we should probably keep that on the cards - though you have given me a few good ideas...

If we decided to run proliferate, it may be a good idea to reintroduce luck counters. As Daedulus suggested, we could have cards that directly interact with coin flips or dice rolls. The key is to find a healthy way to negate luck, while still keeping it semi-random - people tend to hate losing to a coin toss.

The easiest way to manipulate luck in magic is to manipulate the deck.

All that being said, let's continue to brainstorm ideas for that.

Mechanic - Showdown (thanks to CKY for the cool name): Whenever you cast a card with Showdown, you may pay any amount of life. Then, each opponent may pay any amount of life. If you paid more life, you win the Showdown, and gain an effect. Example:

Three Duels at Dawn

Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast Three Duels at Dawn, sacrifice a creature.
Destroy up to three target creatures.
Showdown - If you win the Showdown, return the sacrificed creature to the battlefield tapped.

I believe the easiest thing to "wager" would be life. Given this fact, we can have the aristocracy faction focus a great deal on life gain, and have the oppressed faction focusing on getting additional mileage whenever they voluntary pay life. Examples:

Bank Note

Enchantment
When Bank Note enters the battlefield, gain 2 life.
Whenever you gain life, put a charge counter on Bank Note.
Sacrifice Bank Note: Gain 1 life for every charge counter on Bank Note.

Pain for Gain

Enchantment
Whenever you pay life, draw a card.

***

Those are my thoughts on our "clash" mechanic - it keeps it a little more controllable, but still lets you play mind games with your opponent.

As for our luck mechanics - outside of leylines and gemstone caver effects - we can most deal with luck/charge counters, methinks. Each different color can gain luck counters on various permanents for different things. For instance:

Lucky Find

Sorcery
Search your library for a land card and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Put a luck counter on target permanent.

Lucky Break

Sorcery
Destroy target artifact. Lucky Break deals 2 damage to that artifact's controller. Put a luck counter on target permanent.

Lucky Save

Sorcery
Gain 6 life. Put a luck counter on target permanent.

Lucky Guess

Sorcery
Draw two cards, then shuffle one card from your hand into your library. Put a luck counter on target permanent.

Lucky Shot

Sorcery
Destroy target creature. Lose life equal to it's power. Put a luck counter on target permanent.

This allows us to interact with luck counters in a similar fashion that we do charge counters - but instead, the permanents that benefit from having luck counters don't start with those counters in play, or any way to generate luck counters themselves.

Outside, of course, lucky situations, like having them in your starting hand. Or maybe controlling a certain amount of luck counters. Like so:

Lucky Sevens

Instant
When you draw Luck Sevens, you may reveal it. If you do, and you have exactly seven luck counters among permanents you control, you may cast Luck Sevens without paying its mana cost.

Lucky Sevens deals 7 damage to up to seven target creatures or players.

Anyway, let me know what you all think of this!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:09 pm 
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@Moonbeam: Illarion Vale is a corner case. His special ability is to be able to bring along one passenger with him when he goes travelling. It's unique to the character.

...

I believe? Tevish, correct me if I'm wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:16 pm 
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Spoiler


I'm still not totally feeling the Gamble thing. I'm... honestly not sure why.

Maybe because while Conspiracies and Planechase work in-narrative, the Gambling cards feel more external to me? More like a game mechanic than a flavor mechanic?

(Also yes, Illarion is an outlier adn should not have been counted)

Wow this was a really negative post sorry :/


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:25 pm 
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(Also yes, Illarion is an outlier adn should not have been counted)


I laughed so hard that I had to immediately get up and go to the back room because the customers were giving me strange looks.

@PostNegativity: Hey, can't agree with everything! I thought I had hit on something pretty cool with Showdown - what do you think of that mechanic?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Spoiler

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:37 pm 
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(Also yes, Illarion is an outlier adn should not have been counted)


I laughed so hard that I had to immediately get up and go to the back room because the customers were giving me strange looks.

@PostNegativity: Hey, can't agree with everything! I thought I had hit on something pretty cool with Showdown - what do you think of that mechanic?

While it does a good job at capturing the idea of gambling, I don't think it does a good job running parallel with gunfighting. That's one thing that I think you're just not going to be able to remove luck from because it is such an integral part of it. Sure, there's a lot of skill involved, but that last little edge of luck makes the world of difference.

also: Pain's Reward.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:56 pm 
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As I think about it, you're kinda right. Gamble, while awesome, is kind of a game-style mechanic. You wouldn't set up a gambling table in the middle of a magic duel, would you? (Although maybe gambling would start a magic duel...) And now I'm noticing that this set seems to be a lot of "luck matters." You and your opponent betting life secretly for Showdown, luck counters, etc. Like I said, we need more luck manipulation. Just one thing about Showdown, though-betting life seems like a really bad idea. Esper control would promptly become the top deck, black and red would be almost completely abandoned, and nobody would be terribly happy. Maybe there could be luck counters-choose an amount from a permanent you control and bet those, your opponent bets, and then the reveal? That might work better.

Spoiler

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:05 pm 
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I'll see what I can do. ;)

Though it probably won't be soon. I'll keep it in mind, though!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:05 pm 
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Since it seemed potentially useful, and since we probably ought to have this anyway, I have assembled a list of notable Jakkard natives.

The list includes people mentioned by name in Jakkard stories which are currently in the Archive. So the list will expand as more works get voted in (possibly as early as this week).

(Apologies in advance for whoever I accidentally left out.)

I didn't include planeswalkers or characters who already have dossiers on the Wiki.

Hopefully people may find something here which stirs the creative juices.

Keeper - this seems like the sort of thing which ought to go on the Wiki, but I held off for now in case we decide to implement a compact character infobox template at some point.

Who's Who (and Who *Was* Who) in the Waste

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:11 pm 
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Well, Wild Card hadn't been included in there, but we do sincerely appreciate what you've done.

Btw, I was sort of hoping someone might pick up on it, but I don't think anyone did.
I specifically named my card playing minotaur in Wild Card to pair with the one from All In.

Biggs and Wedge.

Also, and there is no reason for you to have known this, but there IS another legend that bears mentioning.

The... Oso Del Diablo!

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:17 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Biggs and Wedge.


Flawless.

I failed to notice (because my mind doesn't work so quickly sometimes) but YES that is basically where I pulled the name from.

100% 10/10 would reference again.

@OL: That was truly a delight to read, even if I already knew all the characters. Your succinct summaries were tragic (occasionally) and hilarious (mostly). I don't think I've ever read a series of character biographies I enjoyed quite as much as this.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:20 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Well, Wild Card hadn't been included in there, but we do sincerely appreciate what you've done.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh!

I *knew* I would forget something...

I even have "Wild Card' written on my stupid list, and I marked it off as done, like a chump!

I'll fix that, Barin. Sorry!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:24 pm 
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Wow, nice work OL.

We should probably have a location list too since I think a few different names have cropped up a few times.

Very clever Barinellos.


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