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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:44 pm 
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If there's one thing I've learned about Magic, it's that Dominia is a setting that is ALL settings*.

If the DC and Marvel universes which are far more constrained than Magic's can accommodate space operas, slice of life stories, comedies, police procedurals, surreal fantasy, deeply literary meditations on the nature of belief and change and destiny, and dark horror, Magic can accommodate a magical harem anime (though preferably sans some of the more obnoxiously male gazey tropes of the genre).

*Credit, as always, for this brilliant insight goes to former F&S veteran Mercer
Huh, I hadn't thought of it that way until you just now brought it up, but I can sort of liken the general concept to Pactio from Negima! While the "harem anime" thing definitely describes the atmosphere I expected, and I'm not against fleshing out his homeworld where the "harem anime" culture isn't looked down upon, he is still a Planeswalker, so the genre needs to be able to follow him wherever he goes (it's fun to imagine what different kinds of romance could be experienced on different planes) so another pitch I have is what if Milov can use certain magic to bond himself with certain people (assuming I limit him to :rw: then that would be romantic partners and platonic love interests) and he could summon an avatar creature of any of those and through Milov's philomantic unity with him/her, the avatar would actually be a 2-way representation of them.

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:53 pm 
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Oh wow I haven't thought about those books in quite a while...

But yeah, I think OL's second point is very good--I mean, Raleris doesn't get into a lot of fights either, he just uses a lot of countermagic and relies on his ability to make allies.

It's the difference between playing D&D as a combat simulator and playing D&D as a role playing experience--in the latter case, you're not going into encounters looking for a fight, and often there's ways of getting what you want without entering into combat. I mean unless you're playing 4e. [runs from the ensuing edition brawl]


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:58 pm 
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Oh wow I haven't thought about those books in quite a while...

I would love to lie and claim that I didn't start my own detective agency when I was 12. But I totally started my own detective agency when I was 12.

None of my classmates ever brought me a case to solve, nor did the local police retain my services. It was a severe disappointment.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:03 pm 
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On the subject of characters being able to defend themselves, there are a lot of different ways to go with this.

First off, characters don't have to be able to defend themselves. There are a lot of interesting possibilities for fiction which can arise from characters not having the wherewithal to defend themselves. For example (and, to be clear, I'm not saying that this example or any of the others I list are things you *should* do with this character, just ways that he could be written), maybe Milov has to rely on one or another of his many loves for assistance in a fight? Think about (going to date myself with this reference... sigh...) Encyclopedia Brown and Sally Kimball -- who, admittedly, was not exactly Encyclopedia's love interest (although I'm sure that fan fiction exists out there somewhere...). Encyclopedia didn't have to be able to defend himself, because he had a friend who would look out for him. So there are angles like that you could explore.

Second, defending yourself doesn't always mean being able to win a fight. For example, to crib a line from one of my own characters (which is the height of vanity, but oh well), there's more than one way to rob a well-guarded train. You can shoot all the guards, sure. That can work. But you can also just detach the train car the guards are riding in when the train slows down on the grade. You don't always have to be able to match violence with violence to look out for yourself. Again, I'm not literally saying that this would be Milov's shtick, but there are angles like that to explore. Maybe he can use fear or deception to get out of a fight. Maybe he can fool his enemies into attacking each other. Maybe he can inflate to five times his normal size, like a puffer fish. Maybe he can sweet-talk his way out of a jam -- before you know it, he's sharing a drink with the person who wanted to beat him senseless. There are a ton of possibilities if you want to explore that space.
Thanks a lot for the insight, through all of his incarnations I have kept the notion that he would have quite a bit of charisma, so he can sweet talk or generally carry himself in such a way that often [enough] he can talk his way into the right atmosphere of a situation, though this works even less when up against opposition with different faculties than the average civil humanoid, for example; Slivers, Therosian Minotaurs, or just flat out useless against completely primitive creatures (spiders, baloths, dragons, etc) So I think he shall be a blend of the two, so that the only *real* magic he can use is his philomancy and avatar summoning, so he either talks his way out of trouble and into a favorable situation, he runs, or he summons someone whom he has a specifically :r: romantic relationship with, or a strong [enough] :w: platonic love for (best friend) to help him in any way they can. While I don't plan on him being a PUA in the general sense, I do believe I will place him in a compromise between Harem Anime logic and his own fickleness; in that he likely will have a few trivial relations with others per plane before he establishes which ones mean anything, if they are someone with whom a :r: bond can be formed, just as he may make a few friends on each plane before realizing which ones can be fully trusted and can be considered a "true" friend. Filtering one's relationships is a part of life, I don't see why this element can't be explored via Magic storytelling.

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:56 pm 
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Maybe he can inflate to five times his normal size, like a puffer fish.

Hold on... I'm sure I can use this somewhere...

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:59 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Maybe he can inflate to five times his normal size, like a puffer fish.

Hold on... I'm sure I can use this somewhere...
lol A Green merfolk?

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:09 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Maybe he can inflate to five times his normal size, like a puffer fish.

Hold on... I'm sure I can use this somewhere...
lol A Green merfolk?

Well, I was thinking possibly "I" since its size is mutable to start with. It's entire form is fluid.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:01 am 
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Oh, cool, I replied to its post. Anywho, unless someone objects to the plausibility of a character uniquely being able to summon a literal avatar of someone and synchronize the avatar with the person it's an avatar of, and it be projected/maintained by either :r: or :w: (besides theme, I haven't decided any deeper purpose to the color association, perhaps the Avatar being a Red or White Avatar based on Milov's own mana and magic, perhaps that would determine what sustains the avatar further, I'm not sure) then Milov will be a charismatic Planeswalker with the signature magic to summon conduits through which his beloved friends and love interests can interact with him despite being worlds apart; one of said beloved friends has already been just about confirmed to be a White and/or Blue mage whose specialty is the magic of flight and identifies as Milov's 'wingman'. (Plane unconfirmed) Any other foreseeable or hopeful expectation to be given for this character? Thank you everyone for the helpful tug-of-war, it does help, and I lament my reluctance to write before I feel a character has proverbial feet to stand on, especially with so many instances of "Do you think this would even work or be plausible?"

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:19 am 
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Anywho, unless someone objects to the plausibility of a character uniquely being able to summon a literal avatar of someone and synchronize the avatar with the person it's an avatar of, and it be projected/maintained by either :r: or :w: then Milov will be a charismatic Planeswalker with the signature magic to summon conduits through which his beloved friends and love interests can interact with him despite being worlds apart
I have to say, and this is something that has been true but I've been too polite to mention, you should REALLY think about breaking up your thoughts more often. The size of the paragraphs aren't that long, but you tend to cover a lot of territory in a really limited space, and it gets to be a little hard to parse after a certain point.

Anyways, this sort of has to do with the nature of summoning to start with, after a fashion. Take... I dunno, Glory Seeker for example. This is a generic card whose personality has been outlined by the nature of the name. Aside from that, it isn't much more of a person, just sort of a generic being. But the thing is, as outlined in the story Loraan's Smile, the better you know someone the more detail goes into the spell and the more vividly alive that summon becomes. The more they act like the person they are supposed to be.

Now, the relevance to your proposal here is that I think we'd all be fine with him summoning a representation of the people he knows since that's close to what summoning is in the first place. This would give him a reason to actually get to know people better, because it would enhance the simulacra he summons of their skills. Now, my proposal is that rather have a sort of syncing process for it, instead, I'd suggest having little tokens of affection that Milov gives these women that acts as an experience/memory catch. That way the artifact itself syncs with this simulacrum, and then the woman he's given it to can access those memories as if they were her own. (because imagine if she's in the middle of something and all of a sudden has to deal with whatever he's doing. It's the summoning real beings thing all over again.)

Quote:
Thank you everyone for the helpful tug-of-war, it does help, and I lament my reluctance to write before I feel a character has proverbial feet to stand on, especially with so many instances of "Do you think this would even work or be plausible?"

It's no problem. Getting your ducks in a row* before you start going forward is a good practice to have, though there is something to say for spontaneity.

*I inexplicably now wish we had some species of aven based on ducks.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:27 am 
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Do you mind if I make a YMtC card for Milov in a top secret project I'm working on?

Milov, Prince of Hearts

Planeswalker - Milov (M)
3

+2: Up to one target creature can't block this turn.
0: Search your library for a creature or planeswalker card and reveal it. Shuffle your library, then put that card on top of it.
-9: Untap all creatures and gain control of them until end of turn. They gain haste until end of turn.

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YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
I have to say, and this is something that has been true but I've been too polite to mention, you should REALLY think about breaking up your thoughts more often. The size of the paragraphs aren't that long, but you tend to cover a lot of territory in a really limited space, and it gets to be a little hard to parse after a certain point.

Lol I have to agree with you there, my thoughts are sometimes really jumbled up, and when I spill my raw thoughts, they tend to get tangled in a wall of text xP My apologies. I will see about structuring it more often.

Barinellos wrote:
Anyways, this sort of has to do with the nature of summoning to start with, after a fashion. Take... I dunno, Glory Seeker for example. This is a generic card whose personality has been outlined by the nature of the name. Aside from that, it isn't much more of a person, just sort of a generic being. But the thing is, as outlined in the story Loraan's Smile, the better you know someone the more detail goes into the spell and the more vividly alive that summon becomes. The more they act like the person they are supposed to be.

Now, the relevance to your proposal here is that I think we'd all be fine with him summoning a representation of the people he knows since that's close to what summoning is in the first place. This would give him a reason to actually get to know people better, because it would enhance the simulacra he summons of their skills. Now, my proposal is that rather have a sort of syncing process for it, instead, I'd suggest having little tokens of affection that Milov gives these women that acts as an experience/memory catch. That way the artifact itself syncs with this simulacrum, and then the woman he's given it to can access those memories as if they were her own. (because imagine if she's in the middle of something and all of a sudden has to deal with whatever he's doing. It's the summoning real beings thing all over again.)

OH, I see what you're getting at. That sounds about right, it works and fits very well thematically. The only tweak (more like an addition) I would make is that each trinket would let them also magically "program" the avatar between summonings, so that aside from helping Milov, the avatar would also interact with Milov how the person chooses, so that when they recollect the summoning, it isn't TOO obviously vicarious.

Only particulars are 1. If the avatars are generated by his red or white mana, I wonder how this might reflect the relationship between the person, Milov, and the avatar in regards to the color pie. 2. I'm thinking while "negotiator" could still be something he could do, I think a 'job' that could still serve as both a job and a sort of explanation for his travels (like Ajani and Dack's vague "uhh, I'm from/going.....somewhere....else) is if Milov was a messenger/courier but also extended his services as a transplanar courier (before there was the Consortium, and now Fiora implies there's still planar trading) does this apply well enough? It also triples as, in addition to an ideal job for a traveler and a general source of income, but ALSO as a viable plot device for framing scenarios he could and would get himself into. Anything wrong with that picture?

Barinellos wrote:
*I inexplicably now wish we had some species of aven based on ducks.
I agree, that would be awesome. Barinellos: mother ducking summoner; summoner of row upon row of ducks. This makes me think of my would-be owl-aven transguild courier/lore broker/conspiracist.

Do you mind if I make a YMtC card for Milov in a top secret project I'm working on?

Milov, Prince of Hearts

Planeswalker - Milov (M)
3

+2: Up to one target creature can't block this turn.
0: Search your library for a creature or planeswalker card and reveal it. Shuffle your library, then put that card on top of it.
-9: Untap all creatures and gain control of them until end of turn. They gain haste until end of turn.
Oh! Uhh, sure I suppose lol Only headscratcher is why +2 is what it is. Otherwise, go for it.

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:41 am 
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So, one important wrinkle with that idea is that this could be, effectively, a way of somewhat cheating death. It gets into the issues raised by digital brain copies and the like.

Is that a road we want to go down? I think it could be interesting if we did but it's definitely tricky territory.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:32 pm 
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So, one important wrinkle with that idea is that this could be, effectively, a way of somewhat cheating death. It gets into the issues raised by digital brain copies and the like.

Is that a road we want to go down? I think it could be interesting if we did but it's definitely tricky territory.

Huh? How? I don't follow. If you're referring to the summoning, then it's only valid when he *summons* it. I imagine the spell would not work if they had died, as the spell isn't a normal "summon creature" per se, though now I'm not certain if that's how that would work if it were a Black equivalent of the same general spell.

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:07 pm 
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You can still summon people who've died just fine. (Again see Loran's Smile) The trick here is that you're suggesting he might summon someone that functions as near to the real thing as makes no difference (else why would they care about having the memories?)

So they'd only exist for the duration of the summon but they would, in that moment, exist.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:38 pm 
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You can still summon people who've died just fine. (Again see Loran's Smile) The trick here is that you're suggesting he might summon someone that functions as near to the real thing as makes no difference (else why would they care about having the memories?)

So they'd only exist for the duration of the summon but they would, in that moment, exist.
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand. Milov would be able to, for example, be on Theros and summon an avatar of someone from Alara, but Milov's connections with these people make the avatars behave as if they were really there, and the people themselves keep that interaction the avatars did with them. Something amiss?

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:08 pm 
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OH, I see what you're getting at. That sounds about right, it works and fits very well thematically. The only tweak (more like an addition) I would make is that each trinket would let them also magically "program" the avatar between summonings, so that aside from helping Milov, the avatar would also interact with Milov how the person chooses, so that when they recollect the summoning, it isn't TOO obviously vicarious.

I would actually advise against that because it gives him a reason to get to know them well. The more time he spends with them, the more they will be closer to the real person. If you make it so that the simulacrum are programmed by outside sources, the less impetus you have for him to make deeper bonds.

Quote:
Only particulars are 1. If the avatars are generated by his red or white mana, I wonder how this might reflect the relationship between the person, Milov, and the avatar in regards to the color pie.
I would imagine it would skew the personality of off color relationships.
Quote:
2. I'm thinking while "negotiator" could still be something he could do, I think a 'job' that could still serve as both a job and a sort of explanation for his travels (like Ajani and Dack's vague "uhh, I'm from/going.....somewhere....else) is if Milov was a messenger/courier but also extended his services as a transplanar courier (before there was the Consortium, and now Fiora implies there's still planar trading) does this apply well enough? It also triples as, in addition to an ideal job for a traveler and a general source of income, but ALSO as a viable plot device for framing scenarios he could and would get himself into. Anything wrong with that picture?
Courier, negotiator, all sounds fine to me.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:53 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
I would actually advise against that because it gives him a reason to get to know them well. The more time he spends with them, the more they will be closer to the real person. If you make it so that the simulacrum are programmed by outside sources, the less impetus you have for him to make deeper bonds.

I do agree that's important, but wouldn't there be some inconsistencies between the memories of the summon's actions and the person's? That's the only reason I thought to reconcile those details.

_________________
:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:12 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
I would actually advise against that because it gives him a reason to get to know them well. The more time he spends with them, the more they will be closer to the real person. If you make it so that the simulacrum are programmed by outside sources, the less impetus you have for him to make deeper bonds.

I do agree that's important, but wouldn't there be some inconsistencies between the memories of the summon's actions and the person's? That's the only reason I thought to reconcile those details.

Then he doesn't know them as well as he thinks and should spend more time with them. :smirk:

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:38 am 
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Oh! Uhh, sure I suppose lol Only headscratcher is why +2 is what it is. Otherwise, go for it.

Panic

Thanks for the go-ahead!

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The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:55 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Barinellos wrote:
I would actually advise against that because it gives him a reason to get to know them well. The more time he spends with them, the more they will be closer to the real person. If you make it so that the simulacrum are programmed by outside sources, the less impetus you have for him to make deeper bonds.

I do agree that's important, but wouldn't there be some inconsistencies between the memories of the summon's actions and the person's? That's the only reason I thought to reconcile those details.

Then he doesn't know them as well as he thinks and should spend more time with them. :smirk:
So you think the gradual upgrade of the avatar's authenticity (based on depth of his colored relationships) would be able to cause it to be so authentic that if the person were to recollect the memories of the summon, the memory would be accurate to the person's most likely actions and mannerisms, apart from their applications in helping Milov in his endeavors? If so then that should suffice.

_________________
:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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