Ha ha ha ha WHO THE HELL KNOWS >:C

@&#$ing timeline differences grumble grumble

Shoosh. *pap*

Anyway, it might be good for the anthology as a whole for it to take place Pre-Secretist. Jace as the Guildpact really complicates things, and as much as I think it would be cool to muck around with the Dragon's Maze in mind, I think it would be easier on all of our sanity to just focus on Ravnica as a plane. Really, the place is so interesting on it's own, we don't really need a gimmick to sell it.

Oh. I was under the impression that upon the scale at which these stories would be written would be safety to write in-between Jace's excursions off the plane, for if Jace is doing his job, no guilds could step out of line. If he is doing his job then it's just highly encouraged to use no more than one guild appearance per story. I think honestly that both can be done: sometimes he's doing his job and only one guild gets a mention, though they are following the laws of the guildpact, and in some other stories Jace has stepped out and a couple guilds have a spat that is resolved on a much smaller scale than big storylines considering no guild can 100% predict how late or soon Jace will return. (And encouraged to not call him by name, as to all but the highest important guild members know him simply as The Living Guildpact)

So maybe the anthology just ignores storylines and basically acts as a collection of comic strip-esque glances at the plane at large and/or giving this or that guild a mention? I suppose I can roll with that. So, truly, what changes in people, places, and things Secretist and Post-Secretist are relevant and need be ommited?

Well, I mean. The stories don't have to be about the guilds, or inter-guild conflict. The vast public of Ravnica doesn't particularly care about Jace at all, really. 80% of the plane is guildless, after all, and has no reason to think of Jace as anything but a scrawny, blue-colored dude. The Guildpact prevents the guilds from moving against one another - it doesn't stop them from screwing over the rest of the plane with all their shenanigans.

Honestly, if you are writing a Ravnica story, little slices of interaction from every guild would probably be best. Maybe the protagonist needs an Izzet schematic, goods from Dimir's underground market, forged Azorius permits (courtesy of the Orzhov), in order to blast their way through a Rakdos pleasure-house that has been locked down by the Boros. All because they need to save their Selesnyan beau on the inside!

Ravnica tastes best as a medley of flavors, is what I'm saying.

XD Wow! I'm liking the sound of that already! Lol Maybe not 7 whole guilds to one story all the time, but I can see what you're meaning. Pretty much you get your 'protagonist' per se (as not all stories work that way) and 1 or more guilds may or may not be a benefitial step in the direction of their goal and/or an obstacle. Or, as mentioned before, be involved in the story much more subtly.

[shuffles feet awkwardly with the knowledge that his story uses like five guilds]

Are we bringing the onion metaphor back? Can we?

We haven't seen the limitations of Jace's power. Certainly Vraska was able to test the limits of that power. Niv Mizzet's test was declaring war on the Selesnya, though. That's pretty extreme. I really doubt, for story reasons, that minor inter-guild conflicts would be forbidden. Jace just... doesn't have that much direct power over people's everyday lives, from what we've seen.

It's all a moot point if we do it pre-Maze, but it's worth mentioning at least.

What's the Onion Metaphor?

It's a condition, okay? I can't help that I have Jakkarditis.

I was so busy being an 80s guy, I forgot to get it cured.

* * *

I almost hesitate to mention this, but a long time ago, I started work on a kind of Ravnican police procedural:

http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1545

Which, were I ever to get off my lazy duff and finish it, seems like it could possibly be a fit for this project.

I actually kind of like this piece, but I just got pulled away to other things which interested me more at the time.

Wow, why did I never read this?

[looks at post date]

Oooooh because finals. >_<

Yeah, same here. Sorry, Orcish!

Hey, no worries, either of you guys. Lord knows we all get busy, and it's not like anyone's ever under an obligation to read this stuff.

If people turn out to like it, I can probably get it revved back up.

I would still say it's best to do some mix of before and after, considering the Eldrazi are already released before the events of the Logbook. I'm well aware Jace doesn't need to come into the story (no more than Mikaeus in Seasons) but no reason he has to be completely omitted as an underlying plot point. It might even be interesting to subtly toy with the difference between a given guild with Jace actively monitoring the guilds, and a given guild while Jace is not currently on Ravnica. (Clearly he was not on Ravnica prior to The Gorgon and the Guildpact)

The Eldrazi AREN'T though. At least, I don't think that was Barinellos's intention.

It has been said multiple times that the story of Quest for Ula's Temple will finish with an appearance by an Eldrazi (most likely Ulamog.) I'm not pushing for Jace, (I in no way want him 'sculpting minds' in-story) I just have a strong preference for Post-Dragon's Maze. Considering the "toes of canon" really don't feature into the peace of a plane, so long as stories aren't excessively overarching, the fluctuating presence of the Guildpact is a fine backdrop to the rest of the stories.

Yeah, but they're not released before the events of the logbook. The stories lead up to that point.

I guess I'm not sure what the benefit of placing things post-Maze is.

Hmmm, then would it be permissable for the majority of the stories to be Pre-Secretist (and during if told from a perspective of someone guilded OR gateless who does not participate in the Maze, if that's possible) leading up to a skip forward to the times of the New Jacepact?

This is mostly just an interesting thought, no idea how relevant, but what if through unrelated characters' dreams/visions/daydreams OR some sort of indie Izzet project involving a device very *similar* to the "What-If Machine" from Futurama where the result of the Supreme Verdict could be observed.

To be honest, Jace being the guildpact effects all of like... ten people on the plane. The guild leaders.(Granted, Trostani and the Obzedat are multiple people, but I digress.) Because Jace's job as the guildpact is to stop the guilds from EXPLODING Ravnica. That's it. As long as they're not wantonly destroying large swathes of the city-plane in pointless conflicts of ideology, it's play ball! Jace doesn't have the time, patience, or even fortitude to deal with EVERY. SINGLE. CONFLICT. Oh my god that would be so tedious.

So far, we've only seen a few Boros or Azorius schlebs approach Jace directly about petty inter-guild conflicts. Everyone else is far more likely to take matters into their own hands. Jace has become a political tool, (instead of just a tool ZING!) and any guild willing to forego politics in favor of skullduggery or aggression is also likely to forego bringing anything to Jace's attention at all.

What I'm getting at is this; Jace is far from the ultimate power on the plane. He prevents the equivalent of nuclear holocaust, and that's it. He can't micromanage every little things the guilds do. And it's the little things that the guilds do that are the most interesting - whether told from the point of view of the guildless, the guild itself, or another guild entirely.

TL;DR - Pre-Secretist and Post-Secretist doesn't REALLY matter. The stories will be the same. The only difference is that, with Post-Secretist, we have to be careful about stepping on canon's toes because, whereas with Pre-Secretist, we don't.

bless you for making this joke

And yes, that's a fair point. We probably aren't going to see a huge amount of difference between the periods.

I'm personally for having a ravnica anthology cover whatever periods the author wants: Old Guildpact Ravnica, RTR, or post-maze, depending on the story. Hell, there might be an interesting sequence in how ravnica changes (little as it does) with those alterations. I'm not going to write that story, it's not part of my ideas1, but it's something that could easily be done with the material.

1: (Right now a story that will give keeper a case of feels if I do it right, a story that will probably offend ruwin, and a story with its roots in the old/new rav transition)